EV's In Sims - Discussion

The question was whether people would welcome some electric racecars in AMS2 and now it has become a climate change discussion

There's some great journalism out there, what they revealed was that Big Oil started huge denial and disinformation campaigns to sow doubt and undermine any political action, with great success (you can search for Heartland Institute and see what you can find).

Climate has been changing all the time in history, CO2 actually was crucial and necessary for our planet to develop life and become habitable, but there has never been such an increase of CO2 in the atmosphere in such a short period of time. That's the issue. We're currently emitting 40 Gigatons per year, imagine that. Scientists already warned in the 70's and 80's, that's where the shift to sustainable energy should have started. Nothing happened, people kept ignoring it.

Now everyone is upset that things need to change because it is really bad. Even if we stopped emitting CO2 today a rise of the sea level of 10-15m is already in the 'budget'. That will affect 1.5bn people. Not sure if people realise that. It's not going to happen the next few days so who cares, right? And it's not about saving the planet. The planet survived an asteroid impact that killed 70 % of species on earth 66 million years ago and it's still here doing lap after lap around the sun. It might just become uninhabitable for us.

I don't think that EVs are going to be only option. Hyundai have been developing hydrogen solutions, their N Vision 74 Concept is incredible and there might be room for ICEs. There's a Dutch company that developed a purely solar powered car, I think it's called Lightyear. There is going to be lots of different stuff, no doubt, and people will still be able to take their '69 Mustang, Jaguar E-Type or '73 Carrera RS for a spin.

 

I'm sorry, I just feel like I've been beating my head against the wall for years on this subject.

The push for Mass EV adoption is purely political right now as far as I can see. And so many people just blindly follow without questioning it, or worse demand others follow without considering the social and economic consequences for them.

Will EV be part of the future? Of course? As I originally said, they are the perfect car for the 9-5 suburbanite. But ideally, there would be a mixture of solutions to the same problem while encouraging competition.

The solution to pollution is dilution.

 

My feeling is that if EVs are to be included in ams2, it ought to be part of any rallycross dlc pack. Irl WRX has moved to electric power for 2022, so it would make sense for authentic representation of top-level rallycross

 

I agree that EV WRX would be an awesome addition to AMS2 in the adrenaline DLC. WRX is tje perfect discipline for EV I think. Very short races where lots of torque is needed

 

We wouldn't talk about EV adoption if climate change were not upon us.

I am asking very politely. If we don't adopt to something that keeps us from ending civilization as we know are we just going to say that's the way it goes and let it all fall apart. This is not a hysterical question. It comes back with copious data that we have a few years to figure out solutions and that's a best case scenario. Europe is literally burning. Should we just ignore it?

 

On sims
When all is tied up fully and polished with the current ams 2 inc dlcs etc.
If electric is to be introduced, I would like to try Extreem E.
With full tunability for road and offroad with some serious sand dunes and rally tracks.+(paris daka section)
little interest for me to stick ev equivalents to what we have.
Just my current thinking of course

 

About "climate change". It's a subject with a lot of misinformation and politics. But I have a point, that is that simply don't exists not only a single model that predicted those changes. By the 90s there was that model from Al Gore (wasn't his, but he was the most famous advocate of it) that is the basis of all IPCC (the protagonists of all this climate change studies, political activism and media coverage) and it failed BY A HUGE MARGIN. If we will going to speak about science, so let's be scientific about it. Every time that a scientist group divulge a theory, they need to PROVE (or at least how people can test it). If your model fail, so it's not true.

PS: Yeah, I dare anyone here to post at least one model of climate changes that really worked. SPOIL ALERT: You will not find it.

IPCC folks are also noted to be too much arbitrary about their sources. For example, the recently divulgated 40ºC (or 39, can't remember the exactly number, but it's around it) in England as an "all time record", well, is an example, as they compared temperatures elsewhere to a newly data capture in... a fkng airport runaway. And that is only for today... you can see a lot of inconsistences like that.

In São Paulo, IPCC divulgated that we had the coldest winter ever in 2021... but they used data from only the last sixty years... and if you look at data older than 60yo will find another year that was even colder in the late 1900s (before that there are no records). Another example of arbitrary data selection. BTW, if we are burning the world, the southern hemisphere couldn't behave like that. And there is the reason that IPCC dropped the "global warming" (that Al Gore advocated for) banner and now is using the "climate changes" that can simple mean anything. And how can something that means anything can have any mean?

But, yeah, we are still raping the planet and need to change our habits. But you can say that EVs are, for example, saving the environment in a country that generate this energy by burning coal, gas or importing it from other country that do exactly that. Or you can't trade a debatable "climate change" problem to a NOT DABATABLE as all the environmental destruction and even neo-slavery (that is slavery, but even worst because it is abolished in the countries that promote it) caused by all the rare earth minerals extraction (usually in Africa) needed to build those batteries.

So, I'm not saying that there is no climate change, just that I'm not seeing any science over it, just very well selected statistics dropped over contestable climatic models. I'm just skeptical about it, specially because I see it being used for political and economic gain of a very fell people in detriment of the wealth of the massive majority of people, specially those that don't live in "first world countries" and suffer the most with all the restrictions. You can call me a "conspiracionist" but can't deny the Great Reset and 2030 Agenda, that are widely spread by their own perpetuators. The same people that promote all this climate change agendas are the same that these days said that "maybe some global famine would be a good thing to accelerate the great reset" (do you need sources or can you just google it?).

The worst of it all is that even if there is a climate problem, I can be pretty sure that this kind of people is not the one to lead us into the solution. Not them, not the media that belong to them (really belongs... it's open data... no conspiracy here), the political groups they support nor even the Hollywood stars that "are concerned because giraffes are dying burned in Brazilian Amazon". It's a fkng circus, just don't be the clowns.

EDIT: This is how your "world saviors" EVs begin to being built:



Maybe if these were blonde kids in Europe, the world would pay more attention.

And, here, is Nature being saved:



Next time you fell the need to advocate against "climate changes" and all of this "green tech" sht, remember these two pictures.

Well.. one way or another, yes we are

 

What the hell are you talking about dude? Put the keyboard away and log off the Internet.

 

Evidence | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

You are coming across one of those nuts who believe in or create their own conspiracy theories.
This topic is gonna end up being moved to general section which is a shame.

 

No doubt, things look bad right now. Unfortunately, some still believe it's simply due to natural fluctuations in climate. Climate-change deniers are very common here and I think things will have to get much, much worse before Climate begins to get people's attention. Especially while they struggle with inflation, energy costs, rising interest, rising crime, rising political division, rising extremism, abortion rights, water pollution, drug use, suicides, more virus's, etc., etc., etc., . . . the list goes on and on.

So at least we have some distractions (AMS2!) while the world around us seems to be going completely insane.

 

It's a presentation (not a study or scientific model) made by the IPCC that uses what IPCC says as a prove that it's real. Circular logic is not science, just rhetoric.

Recommend that you check the sources (and how data was gathered) of every "fact" claimed in this website.

 

Which is based on peer-reviewed studies and found to be fitting the state of the planet very accurately. If there is something wrong it is that the effects of global warming are much larger than initially predicted.
Now please stop this non-discussion and let's get back on topic: EV,s in sims and discussion (about EV's)

 

Yes... peer reviewed by other folks from IPCC. As Al Gore study, that was widely peer reviewed... and completely failed.

I will not stop until people stop to use this topic to advocate climate changes as it was an undisputable fact, that is not. Science is not a democracy, that most votes win the truth... if there is only one scientist contesting, it will not be settled... as it wasn't with Galileo, Darwin or Einstein... three well know "denialists" of their time.

If people want the discussion to stop, just stop advocating and go back to discuss EVs in AMS2. I just made ONE post, that make you people mad and still have no valid answer... not to science nor what is happening in Africa because of "green tech as solution".

 

Just a note.
In the update thread it was political views that put me off reading the thread. The climate subject imo is bigger than a thread or even forum would req. I also have strong views as we all do. I really think the Reiza sim Forums /should not be political whatever our view. Or subject.
A request was then made to Devs to have a dedicated thread which the EV subject deserves.
However A cautionary note was issued: I can only pass this on, and I agree.
Quote:
'A bit of off-topic isn't too severe in these loose threads as long as it doesn't get out of hand like the Piquet talk recently.'

 

If the planet were not literally burning up, as IPCC and many others said it would, you'd might have a point...

 

I watch formula e (I also watch F1, Nascar, V8 supercars and if I could I would watch IndyCar). Electric sports cars could be an interesting addition. Yes but after Copa Petrobras, TCR, Rally Cross, Group 5, snowy circuits...lol. Come on Reiza, a 2023-2024 season Pass...

 

Yes, lithium mining isn't that good for the environment, at least locally. Decades of complete devastation of the environment caused by Shell in Nigeria wasn't that much better either, I guess. Lithium-Ion certainly isn't going to be the final answer. Tech will get better and new materials will be explored, no doubt about that. Efficiency will get better, energy density etc.etc.

Galileo was guided by evidence, he looked through his telescope and the evidence showed that people had been falsely believing for a thousand years that everything revolves around the earth.

The evidence shows that CO2 causes the greenhouse effect, the atmosphere heats up and we are the cause. Quite mind-boggling that there's still this notion around that science doesn't know what it's talking about.

Anyway, it's useless to argue about climate change. It's just sad to see that people are still being mislead big time.

 

The irony is that if society had put forth tech solutions to climate change 30 years ago some us wouldn't be sitting here wondering if there will be motor sports in the future.

 

The problem was never political OR SCIENTIFIC talk (I still treat climate as science, just pointed that there is political pressure over it), but that there is a big group of folks that are excessively emotive about "stuff" and get emotionally triggered easily (even if there is not the intention to inflame the discussion). There are two pages of eco-chamber about climaggedon... I just made ONE post disagreeing and there already people complaining.

No, it's not... I'm having a very nice winter and even if this year we got back to Brazilian Standard, last year was the coldest winter we have here in the last 80 years. Maybe your region is hotter than average because of urbanization... or just because you are getting old... probably because media and politicians don't stop to bang it into everybody heads.

PS: And no giraffes died during this post lol

The irony is that the 90s predictions had all failed even if all emissions got much worst, so there is no fkng science about all this histeria.

And, an even greater irony is that climate change still an open subject, but you can't say the same about all the devastation caused by the production and discard of green tech.

 

I've given this some thought. Let's say that effective nuclear fusion became a reality 30 years ago, but that it still was too expensive and complicated for a privateer to make from scratch in their garage. I think society still would have similar energy-driven conflicts as today. Superpower nations would guard the technology and spend a lot of that technology on their military, and they would claim that they guard the technology so that it doesn't fall into the wrong hands. Developing nations would beg the UN for access to this technology, and the rich nations would cook up some scheme where the technology could be licensed to developing nations, bringing those nations into more financial debt. Since nations without this technology felt it was unfair that they couldn't get access to it, they would compensate by boosting their own dirty energy sources... and we'd still have conversations about energy storage such as lithium mining, ++

I don't think the root of the problem is energy technology, I think it's a problem that reveals fundamental flaws in the human mind, both our individual lust for more resources and also group dynamics when we feel that we're treated unfairly. There are plenty of scientific experiments done on rodents, primates, and humans that back this up. We will in time find technological solutions that reduce the impact, but I think we're in for a shock before we see the collective paradigm shift needed to change course on the human front. As children we can quickly learn how to share resources on a local scale, but as adults we learn how to rationalize and make up arguments for why we're technically sharing although in practice we're really not, especially on a global scale with the effects and externalities only becoming obvious several years after we're no longer in charge.

In the short term I think the political discussion will become worse, with tensions rising internationally, and an increasing amount of luddites who will blame industrialization and technology, when technology is really the only tool we humans have in our toolbox, ever since we harnessed fire. But in the longer term, I think society will recover. Some of that recovery will be social, and some of it will be due to technology, including better energy and transport technology.

EVs are an intermediate step towards better energy usage that have many flaws that will have to be solved. As a Norwegian myself, I'm perfectly aware of the hypocrisy of our government selling "clean oil" that's refined using hydroelectric power, and washing our hands clean by pointing out that we're the country with the highest EV adoption in the world.

It's quite clear that EVs in racing is a form of window dressing, showing how much the participants are trying to do good in the world, while it really doesn't have the kind of impact that it symbolizes. But as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, if elite motorsport becomes electric, that puts more research & development into more efficient transportation technology. When turbos were first introduced into motorsport it was in order to increase power. But today turbos are mostly used in combustible engines to provide enough power but primarily with more energy efficiency. I think we'll see similar effects from research & development of EVs in motorsport.