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Excessive Wheel Spin (especially in lighter, low power cars) beaching cars

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by phutc, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. phutc

    phutc New Member

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    The wheel slip and spin is so bad that if you take a lower powered light car like one of the caterhams and try to start facing up hill it is almost impossible, you will either stall the engine or start sliding sideways with no control. I think it happens in all cars but the low power light ones can even get stuck on tarmac with an incline so are totally beached in any kind of grass or gravel if you come to a stop.

    You can see the problem in higher power cars sometime of you downshift into too low of a gear and the wheels start spinning that can last 2 or 3 corners even.

    I guess it's just something that needs tweaking but it makes starting races in some cars almost impossible and a spin on the grass will almost inevitably leave you beached in the lowest powered cater ham for example.

    Apart from that I'm loving the game, keep up the hard work!
     
  2. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    The tendency to fishtail under power is overdone in the extreme in many cars, but it's always unrealistically saveable.
     
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  3. john Ellis

    john Ellis Member

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    It’s a bit odd how one driving sim that permits the unrealistic saving of too-easily induced oversteer is trashed as “simcade” while another sim with ridiculously low grip levels under throttle, but without an increased level to reign it back in, is hailed as “realistic” due to the increased, if ultimately cartoonish, difficulty in keeping the monster on track.

    In real life, I haven’t had an issue keeping any road or race car on the road or track regardless of how spirited I drove them; furthermore, race cars typically have upgraded performance and grip relative to their road-going counterparts, so driving them at anything under 10/10ths is actually easier to drive, comparatively speaking. Any actual race car with handling worth simulating has a pretty broad envelope for testing one’s limits without spinning all over the place.
     
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  4. RWB.3vil

    RWB.3vil Member

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    In the older rFactor engine days of sims, when a tyre broke traction it was impossible to get the grip back after coming off the throttle and cars would continue to pendulum and spin out or understeer and slide frontwards off track. Thats not how tyres ,especially slicks, work at all. Easing off the throttle when traction breaks makes slick tyres re grip very quickly.

    With rfactor2's ISI motor 2.5 and now the Madness Engine are we getting much more realistic behavior due to far greater tyre simulation than the old days, that perhaps due to unexpected grip after backing off do some think its un-sim like because they have been far to used to older sims, doing what they could with the limited code they were built on.
     
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  5. Wolfgang Herold

    Wolfgang Herold Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    the medicine against it is known as traction control. Most modern cars have it.
    Be aware that pCARS2/AMS2 traction control needs low values.
    100% is NOT 100% traction, its 100% wheel slip !
     
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  6. RWB.3vil

    RWB.3vil Member

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    Indeed typically when you use the ICM you will see under TC settings (if the car can be altered on track) 0.10 (10%) slip, for comparison that would be 90% TC in raceroom experience which is usually the number 2 TC preset in the set up menu.
     
  7. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    rFactor is at the other extreme end of the spectrum, and I'm not advocating that. AMS1 has it right.

    The Formula Vintage in that game will easily get sideways, and sometimes it can't be saved. In AMS2 it's very difficult to get the same car to do anything but drive sideways, but control is never lost. If you watch old F1 footage, you won't see the cars crabbing along every single second.

    Right now a lot of the cars display the worst of both worlds: extreme difficulty in keeping straight, but extreme forgiveness in not losing control.
     
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  8. John Caetano

    John Caetano Member

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    LMAO, figures why adjusting this made things worst for me (i know it only applies to some cars at the moment). Unless i missed it they really need to add little info text to these settings for those new to this brand...
     
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  9. phutc

    phutc New Member

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    I think actually someone hit the problem on the head when he was describing rFactor 1 when he said once the wheels started spinning they would not stop even when you let off the throttle. This is what is happening in AMS 2.

    Also it is NOT a question of what people think is easy vs difficult arcade vs sim real vs not, the fact you can't get going from stopped in a low powered caterham if you are facing uphill is not a matter of opinion it is a bug, or probably more accurately an area of the model which hasn't been tuned in yet.

    The point of the thread isn't another endless which sim is most real discussion, it's to bring this particular PROBLEM (and it is a problem) to the developer notice. Did anybody else find this problem? Maybe you could share your experience of it to help the developers understand what exactly is not quite right with the physics model.

    I'll get down off my high horse and stop preaching now.
     
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  10. john Ellis

    john Ellis Member

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    Did it occur to you that those of us who momentarily took this hyper-focused discussion in a direction other than the one noted above simply did NOT replicate the problem you described?

    Also, is it so wrong to pay Reiza a compliment (e.g., something like "There are aspects of AMS2 driving physics and feel we think are step up from earlier sims") interspersed among the criticism, valid as it may be?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  11. NuScorpii

    NuScorpii Well-Known Member

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    Can you give a specific example of the car, track, and incline where this happens so we can try to reproduce?
     
  12. Djalma Ribeiro

    Djalma Ribeiro HI MOTION RACING

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    In the early days of using the AMS2, I was also hating spin when accelerating. But with a few more hours of training I learned that you can't accelerate hard at the exit of some corners, it needs to be a slow acceleration.

    See in this video "9:40" how the driver accelerates the Stock Car (after opening the accelerator at 100%) and see how the car spins fast, with no chance of control.



    I believe that after adding the graphical visualization of the accelerator and training percentage on the screen, it will be easier to analyze if the car is rotating too easily or it is the driver that is causing the rotation due to lack of skill.
     
  13. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I hope Reiza flips that to "normal" when they get to activating it.
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    In principle, I agree with you.

    However, please ensure you are not using any (all unfinished) driving aids like auto-clutch or traction control before reporting simple glitches as "physics problems." That notion will always start a heated discussion in any sim forum :) I suspect you have identified a problem with aids as opposed to physics because I can get a Cat Academy or Super Sport to launch normally on a steep slope (just tested) and in all the time I have in AMS 2 (since alpha) I have not once experienced what you are describing. But, I have always had everything set to authentic.
     
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  15. Pixel

    Pixel Member

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    I also think that the wheel spin is excessive. IMO ACC has the best physics and is what I compare too right now as to how easy it should be to not overdo the throttle. It just feels more realistic. Loving the new ffb though.
     
  16. TekNeil

    TekNeil Take me back to the 2.4l, twin 50 weber days...

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    But that's only comparing GT3...It's horses for courses.
     

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