Feedback Regarding Dirty Air in the Formula V10 Gen3 and V8 Gen1–2

Hello,

I would like to provide feedback on an important aspect that I believe is essential for the recently introduced Formula cars, namely the V10 Gen3, V8 Gen1, and V8 Gen2, and that is the issue of dirty air.

I have tested all of these single-seaters, both online in private sessions with friends and against the AI, and I have noticed that it is possible to follow the car ahead very closely, even with several cars in a row, almost like a train.

During that era, Formula cars generated a significant amount of dirty air, and when following another car closely, there would come a point where so much front-end downforce was lost that drivers were forced to drop back slightly. Not only would the car struggle to turn properly, but the hot air coming from the car ahead would also require more steering input, causing increased tire wear.

This is something that was represented very well, for example, in the Formula V10 Gen1 and Gen2. That is why I wanted to provide this feedback, because in order to make this era feel more authentic and believable, it is necessary to accurately reproduce the characteristic dirty air effects that existed at the time.

I hope you will take this into consideration and work on improving it.

Thank you

 

Ive noticed that when alone on track I get significantly more front end bite than when im following close behind another car. So when doing qualifying I can push more into corners but as soon as I have a car infront the car tends to understeer and I have to reduce my throttle just to make the corner.
So I thought dirty air was rather realistic and an impressive feature of AMS2.

 

few friends and I were running some tests at a competitive race pace to see what would happen when following each other at gaps ranging from about 0.2 to 0.8 seconds, and we were able to follow one another perfectly.

From what I remember of these cars in real life, as soon as you got to around 0.2 seconds behind another car, you would already start losing front-end downforce. That's precisely why following another driver closely was so challenging back then.

In fact, I have a race replay against the AI, although I don't want to spam the thread by posting the link. In a 2005 Monza race, you could clearly see groups of 5–6 cars running nose-to-tail within less than two seconds of each other. Honestly, it didn't seem realistic to me.

Of course, if a car ahead has an engine issue or significant tire degradation, it's possible to stay right on its gearbox (for example, Imola 2005–2006 with Alonso versus Schumacher). However, when all cars are in similar condition, drivers used to struggle a lot more when trying to follow the car in front due to the aerodynamic turbulence.

That's why I'm providing feedback on this aspect, and I believe it should be addressed.

Try running a race against the AI at a difficulty level between 105 and 110, or even 120 if you prefer, with AI driver errors set to 0.5 and maximum aggression at Monza 2005 (or a similar layout), and see whether you experience the same thing I did.

Thank you.

 

Yeah fair enough, I was only going on feelings, nothing scientific or amything and I have been wrong once before so your probably right. We all know Reiza will resolve it, they are very thorough.

 

It's not about being wrong, so don't worry about that. It's simply that when driving in traffic, I noticed that feeling, which is why I brought it up.

Of course, different people can have different impressions, but any feedback that helps improve the title is ultimately positive for everyone. That's why I raised this point about dirty air. Both from my own experience driving the cars and from watching races posted by other people online, I consistently get the impression that dirty air is not having much effect on the handling of the cars.

Considering how difficult it was in real life to see races with three, four, or five cars running nose-to-tail without suffering a performance loss from following the car ahead, it stands out to me as something that may not be fully represented at the moment.

Best regards.

 

Watch Austin Ogonoski at 19:30 when he hits dirty air.

 

My impression at the 19:30 mark is that the driver brakes a bit too late and runs slightly wide, which is what causes the car to behave that way. I don't think it's the result of dirty air.

I've watched the same sequence 7–8 times, and that's the conclusion I've come to. Also, that particular corner doesn't generate much dirty air because it's a very slow-speed turn. Dirty air mainly has an effect in medium- to high-speed corners, where aerodynamic downforce plays a much bigger role.

I'll watch more of the video to see whether there are any situations in faster corners where dirty air is noticeable. However, at least in that specific moment, I don't see the mistake as being caused by dirty air.

 

He is a pretty skilled driver and dev for Straight 4 studios, he does know a thing or two and I've felt what he did and put it down to dirty air. But your probably right and i am just guessing here.

 

Players suffered from the dirty air effect for a long time, and it mainly affected player cars. The AI was affected too, but not nearly to the same extent. I think Reiza did a good job with this fix.

I believe some PvP players may complain about it or dislike the change, but as a PvE player, I'm satisfied with it. Also, in my opinion, there's no need to recreate one of the biggest problems of that era, it doesn't improve the gameplay experience.

 

If we're talking about accurately simulating that era, then in my view the racing experience should include all the characteristics that defined driving back then. Dirty air was a major factor, and drivers had to be not only fast but also smart, knowing how to manage and work around its effects. Because of that, the driving experience changes significantly when it is represented correctly.

If, in reality, drivers were unable to follow closely through medium- and high-speed corners because of dirty air (except in situations involving tire wear, damage, or other performance differences), then I believe that for those of us who want that period to be simulated as realistically as possible, it is important to improve the dirty air effects I have described.

Doing so would make the racing experience more authentic and more representative of what Formula racing was actually like during that era.

 

Main issue is that currently, AFAIK, there's no way to make the AI suffer the same experience of dirty air as the player, so if the dirty air was as big as it should be, then we couldn't race the AI.
There's been moments in ams2 when dirty air has been massive, I remember a race I did years ago in the FV10G2 at Suzuka where I lost easily 5 tenths on the first corner alone vs the AI, but because they weren't suffering as much it was pretty much undrivable, they would just all bunch up behind you and it was a mess.
So until Reiza finds a way to properly replicate that effect on to the AI I think what we have is as good as we can have it.

 

I get wanting historical accuracy, but true authenticity requires a level playing field. If "realistic" dirty air only ruins the player's aero while the AI is completely unaffected, the realism breaks down anyway. I'd rather have a slightly compromised aero model that allows for fun, fair racing than a hyper-realistic one that only punishes the human player.

 

Obviously, I'm not looking for differences between how the AI behaves and how a human driver behaves. The idea is that dirty air should affect the AI in the same way it affects a human driver.

If you're leading the race, the feedback I've provided is intended so that when the AI tries to follow you, it experiences the same dirty air issues I've described, unless there are race circumstances that would naturally allow it to stay close. The same should apply in reverse when the AI is leading and a human driver is following.

By race circumstances, I mean factors such as tire wear differences, damage, engine problems, or overall performance disparities, where there is evidence that a driver can remain close to the car ahead. However, under normal conditions—both cars in optimal condition, with similar tire wear and no significant performance differences—I believe that in medium- and high-speed corners it should be noticeably difficult to follow another car closely.

 

Nobody is saying otherwise, but currently its not possible to have it this way.