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FFB: Just a heads up to Reiza

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by LogiForce, May 27, 2019.

  1. AlenC

    AlenC Member

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    I just did a quick test and the same thing happened to me with 1.03. But I think I remember this happening before as well...
     
  2. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Been driving the trofeo and messed with the ffb a bit but its a needle in a haystack to get a decent ffb You end up just making do. Not as good as acc but it's fun and weather is cool and handling suppose isn't bad. Hope Reiza bring it to ams standard. But I gave up with pc2 ffb moons ago..

    U won't get it right. You will get one car sort of good enough and the next will feel utter trash! That's the issue with pc2 right there!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  3. Juan Reinoso

    Juan Reinoso Doctor SimRacing Reiza Backer

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    Christian, I've been testing your FFB file, I have a Direct Drive Accuforce, your configuration is very very good, but it has very high peaks, and I have to put the smoothing on 100%, it's a bit crazy, anyway it feels very well with that configuration, maybe you can modify something so that it is not necessary to put 100% smoothing

    Maybe you are interested in entering the discord group "AMS Unofficial", sure there you will find help and a few testers from your files, besides me, of course
     
  4. Juan Reinoso

    Juan Reinoso Doctor SimRacing Reiza Backer

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    My configuration is 100 gain, volume depending on the car, tone 90, effects 20
     
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  5. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    First of all, I want to say that the karts are just broken. I know for a fact they tried to somewhat hack the way karts work via making it adjustable with suspension setup and so on.
    Since the pCARS 1 days I've been pro flexible chassis emulation, which was on the table for pCARS 2 but was unfortunately dropped because it would only really be beneficial for the karts but the R&D time and costs were just too great. So we're stuck with the same old fixed chassis Physics.

    This means that with the hacks the karts just became a mess, which isn't my fault but the underlying Physics that are just going haywire.

    So if Reiza can improve anywhere that is by adding a flexible chassis solver to the Physics system. *hint hint* ;)


    @Juan Reinoso
    I will look into it but I don't have those peaks here. Could you tell me under what circumstances this happens exactly so that I can try to reproduce it here?
    So what car, track, setup, ffb settings you used and at what corner it happens or if it happens in a drift or whatever.
    If it's on multiple cars than keep in mind that I only have a puny CSWv2, so if you can give me the car that was the worst than that'll be most helpful. :)


    That said... I am quite busy at the moment with other stuff. I am got a reel 2 reel tape recorder from someone and their old tapes, but their deceased son is still singing on there and I asked if I should make a copy of it. Which they wanted me to as they didn't have it, so I am going to prioritize that first.

    Also I am going to wait until my new RTX 2080 graphics card arrives so I don't have to annoy myself with VR stutters anymore. Which should arrive early this week.
     
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  6. hotak

    hotak New Member

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    I think they actually have some kind of chassis flex modeled, but simply not enough for a kart to work correctly:

    From my studies of control system dynamics, i can tell that the more something is stiff (wich is the case for chassis), the higher his natural frequency gets. At higher frequencies you either have to also increase simulation's frequency (600hz for pCars, i think some sims have it even slower) or you get bigger errors and, potentially, solver explosion (think of a signal at 1200hz, of which the sim would always and only get the rising edge and not the falling one resulting in something completely different from the original signal).
    Also for something like kart dynamics, you would want a very non-linear flex of the chassis (meaning it doesn't only depend from the force multiplied for a coefficient), since all simulation have to go trough an approximante linearization step, for an high-frequency item is also difficult to get that linearization correct.
    I think with actual tech and computing power is nearly impossible to simulate a kart trough realistically simulated chassis flex, you'll always have to introduce some fake spring+damper in the model as a low-pass frequency filter. Or at least you need a separate phisycs engine just for karts.
     
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  7. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I am just glad that I am not the only one who could not get any sensible experience with the karts. I'll just ignore them.
     
  8. Juan Reinoso

    Juan Reinoso Doctor SimRacing Reiza Backer

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    It is for every car and track, but don't worry because with 100% smoothing it feels great
     
  9. Supa

    Supa Member

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    I really don't understand all those silly ffb settings at all in pcars 2 and hope reiza get rid of them. I mean what the hell does gain and volume mean. I tried %100gain but then you have to add volume as well?? Surely this would suggest the Ffb is broken ...and then you have all the other silly settings which can only be fake canned effects like tone etc. Really? If the Ffb signal is good like AMS and Rf2 for instance then you don't have to have all those options. I'd prefer just strength slider like AMS or FFB multiplier like Rf2
     
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  10. Msportdan

    Msportdan Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    agree.. no sim worth a dime, needs that amount of custom files and hacks to get the thing working...and still be pretty meh
     
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  11. Kolysion

    Kolysion Member

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    I dont want a Project cars account, unless you upload elsewhere I will not use your FFB custom settings.
     
  12. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    If you are a guitarist you would know, because it follows guitar amp analogy.
    Gain is implemented for console only basically, because on a console you don't have driver access to control your FFB output.
    Volume controls the signal amplitude of the FFB before it leaves the FFB/Physics engine. Gain acts as a volume control on the already 'broadcast' signal by the game engine, so it acts more like a volume knob on your receiver.
    As a example: With volume set to high you can clip the signal, and once you have a clipped signal you can try to turn gain down but your signal is still clipped but is just output as a clipped signal at a lower volume.

    So in short:
    Gain = volume amp output stage
    Volume = volume pre-amp stage.
     
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  13. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    That is your choice. I don't want to manage multiple places at once, as that would end up becoming a organizational choir that I don't wish to have.
     
  14. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur New Member

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    So, using your file, are Mx and My tyre moments restored? Or are those just not useable in PCars2?
     
  15. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    That's the whole point of my file. So yes they are. ;)

    I did recently discover that the braking system is bugged though. Which causes the oscillation on wheels to happen, as well as it causing the car to swing the tail around for no reason and thus impacting trail braking as well.
    Also engine braking seems to have an impact somehow.

    So Reize really needs to look that one over with SMS in my opinion, because it's something no FFB file in the world could fix.
     
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  16. Colorline

    Colorline New Member Reiza Backer

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    world is small #wmdpower
     
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  17. 27th Racing

    27th Racing New Member Reiza Backer

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    A big thank you to the OP. the FFB mod makes the game playable for me.
     
  18. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    You're welcome. I know it's far from perfect but it's a big step in the right direction. There are just things I can and can't do, and some effects (like flatspotting) are disabled in the pCARS 2 STM tyre model by SMS. So there's no way you can get that back without having game engine access.
     
  19. ermo

    ermo New Member Reiza Backer

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    Bugged how? ABS inducing oscillations?
     
  20. LogiForce

    LogiForce New Member

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    ABS has nothing to do with it. The more you press on the brake pedal the more it starts to clamp somehow, as in the left brake creates a force feedback push to the right, and the right to the left.
    This pushes so strongly that the FFB gets clamped around an imaginary center and if it overshoots that center it starts to correct itself, and so it starts to overshoot and correct. Which is visible as an oscillation.

    The rear has an opposite effect but with no forces added from the rear tyres to the front you won't feel it, what does happen is that for some weird reason the car will pull to one side when you lock up the rear tyres even if you keep the steering wheel utterly straight. This is most evident when turning the brake bias completely rearward, effectively turning it into a handbrake of sorts.
     
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