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Formula-Retro drivability

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Damian Baldi, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Without digging out Ethan the Brabham drivers quote I was wondering if we can beat our previous tt times? anyone?
    If the cars are improved at all recently, then it should be easy to improve even if there not fixed fully. My TTs were done on default so if default is now better I should be able to tell. I will try at some point in the next few days.
     
  2. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    You are assuming the all changes to the tires will have no effect? Plus whatever else has been tweaked in the background we don't know about?
     
  3. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    ? Not at all, on the contrary.
    Im saying if the car has improved (as some have said and others feel not) I will/should be able to tell from my TT times ie default to default
    Whether diff, tyres, any or all together other changes that have been made!

    Thats why I said I would not refer to the real racing drivers thoughts on the diff and also how the real car handles corners irl
     
  4. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I am a fan, not such a critic of these cars
     
  5. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Great. I just wasn't sure where your conclusion that they should be faster now after a variety of updates. The changes could go either way or cancel each other out and produce more or less the same lap times.
     
  6. Apex

    Apex Member

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    I had a go with a setting closer to yours, and while I found it tricky at first, it's definitely faster. Much faster - as in more than a second faster on Silverstone '75 (with chicane). That was good fun!

    On a side note, I turned up the AI skill level a few notches and added a healthy dollop of anger, only to find that while they certainly drive with more enthusiasm, they're still very reluctant to actually overtake.
     
  7. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    For me, the clutch diff now vs before, is better, because the lowest setting is looser than before. It's still not enough, but I can actually get separation on the grass/pavement test sometimes when it is set to full loose.

    I will say that the BT44 seems way better than before. I remember it being by far the most unpredictable, hard to drive variant. The Lotus was faster, mostly because it was more predictable over crests. The BT44 now seems far more settled and reasonable.
     
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  8. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Hi Internernal,
    Thats nice to hear, I read a few posts earlier (here and thought I may tryTT at inter h, as response to my eariler post.

    Im hopping the Brabham is better and like I said, should be easy to tell difference.

    (Will be online in 15m) May just put a retro race up same track should be good.
    Just finding it hard not to love the Procar!!!
    edit your setting suggestions for Babham same as above post?
     
  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    I have not tried TT again, but my times at Oulton Classic have improved, even without tryharding. I don't think, that overall laptimes are the most reliable indicator for improvements in physics, though. You were able to hit way faster Kyalami Historic laptimes with the first beta versions of the F-Retro already.
    I must say, i definetly drive times closer to AMS1 on Oulton Classic with the BT44, though.
    The improvements are also for me perfectly noticeable and i have less problems to judge especially the BT44 on slow corner entries and exits. It still needs pretty extreme values on the clutch LSD to archieve useful fine tuning of the actual driving outcome, but at least you now see "something" happening in the telemetry and also feel it clearly. (Threshold and Trail braking actually does something useful, instead of just finding the braking sweetspot for a moment with crazy rear brake bias to break it lose and letting it scrub into the turns)

    Before the changes, the wheelspeed graphs for both rear wheels were basically exactly the same when going with 89°/89° at 0 Nm preload and 2 clutches, now you have visible differentiation especially in very slow corners.

    But, like mentioned...this is more likely to happen properly at the most unlocking configuration, you can set for these cars, so maybe there could happen a bit more in the future.
     
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  10. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Just having a blast trying to catch Andy's time.
    Car is certainly different. Turns much better and feels more natural.

    (without trying to find the post) First thing I noticed when lifting off throttle the "lag" that I mentioned in engine braking taking effect that we spoke about many posts ago has almost gone and I would say the "interia" adjustment made in recent update would account for that, and its more natural/normal response on lift off. Also helping approach and corner turn in. imo

    Noticable to me at least in this (just cut it short to reply) default retest is less actual front tyre grip. When previously chasing Andys ghost there are turns that I definatally now have less f/ grip .
    Mid toHigh speed grip is lower
    Overall car is more of a blast now and maybe my old favorite may get me out the Pro car for a few hours:)
    Old time is in pic I have not yet topped it tonight in this build with the grip difference at front but not tried many laps
    IMG_1130.jpg
    It would be interesting to hear Andy"s take on his time in the Mclaren and him trying to improve it.

    worth a try!

    Agreed but I would add:)
    I find the consistent repetition gives me a good feel for the car.
    Nice to hear the grass/diff differences are showing
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  11. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    On the graphs, the BT44 actually showed more differentiation while driving slow corners and not so much at clutch dump test. (It's definetly better anyway, but still shows a - prone to very much lock - clutch LSD...nevertheless it actually sooomewhat works now, i hope, it wasn't the last step of improvements, though.)
     
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  12. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Me too
    TT is testing me, Temped to add some front wing but that would render default test pointless.
    Car/class will be more fun to race though and hopefully more takers..
    will have to rerun some races! sometime
     
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  13. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    I sometimes would like to see/feel more "movement" in the car and more gradual but sooner reaction to steering inputs and slides, still. The F-Retro feels so "static/artificial" in some situations. When i drive it around Ibarra (1:13.9 in AMS1 compared to 1:18.xxx in AMS2 btw., so much time difference here, despite having more engine power in AMS2...of course Ibarra lies a bit more in the mountains, so i may take this into account for AMS2s atmospheric engine model...losing much time while cornering though, especially with 4 clutches instead of 2), it makes me still want to go back to AMS1 every time, i try it, to be honest. It's almost "condition on/off" in various cases, when going into corners and out of them.

    EDIT:
    Man, the Lotus feels horrible at Interlagos historic, to be honest. Even the FFB is pretty lifeless. Still the snap that keeps going and going, over crests and the reactions of the car are not really noticeable, nor communicated very well (even audio/visually). I can't quite believe, AMS2 is using the same system for FFB like AMS1, when driving this, to be honest.
    Not that much fun, i will let it rest for now :-/


    Btw.
    @Paul Cohen what is the reason for your dislikes? Have you experienced some varying results in clutch dumping and LSD configurations? I would love to read about it.;)
    Or are you sulky, because of something? :)

    Grow up please.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  14. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    The Lotus was my favorite but it’s the slowest of the 3 to me now. The Mclaren and Brabham are better driving cars to me now. Odd since I vastly preferred the Lotus before.



    by the way, not quite sure what to make of it yet, but since I like to run a tight power side and loose coast side I’m running 20Nm preload, 2 clutches, 45 power and 90 coast.... at Bathurst I find if I am on the power over the crests, the cars stay stable. Makes sense since the tires are locked, but maybe since some level of differentiation is happening it’s not immediately heaving the car sideways. It’s even pretty predictable over the big crest between turn 1 and turn 2 now, as long you have at least one click of rear df over front.

    Lastly I find lower tire pressures help quite a lot with grip.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  15. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    YesI had used lower in some of our races and other setting changes, with pos effect
    In my default TT test its Med to High speed grip that car seems to have lost, (amended my post above to show. 3rd/4th gears corners specifically.
    T1,T2 and down the hill I can still leave the Andy"s Mclaren behind on most attempts. Mid sections of track he's away!! . Not knocking it, its just what it does now.
    Mm I know you spent a lot of time in it. cant really compare here as I really got hooked on the Brab. I will try the others a little latter when time allows. certainly the Mclaren. Seems the lotus has drawn the short straw on improvements.
    I will maybe try this track in the Brab maybe Mclaren
    A few races and adjustments to look forward I think. see if some of the old names pop up online to join. :)
     
  16. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Ref Brabham Its closer :)
     
  17. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I think I did a hotlap in the McLaren around 1.0 release time so quite a while ago! I'm not playing AMS2 much now, just retesting when an update brings some physics changes.
     
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  18. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    Problem with the lower tire pressure is it seems to hurt top speed quite a bit, and most of the 70s era tracks are definitely high speed flow tracks. Spielberg, Interlagos 76, Imola 72, Kyalami... all pretty high speed circuits. I find I keep having to bump up the tire pressure and deal with the car driving awful as a result.

    More frustratingly, the car still drove better with the geared diff. I hope they keep working on it.
     
  19. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Differential Tuning Discussion
    Mmm reread around 25 pages and the post on different threads.Including your informative above.

    Diffelephant in the room smaller than early August, not just for retros.
    Brabham is better so I will enjoy the improvements and look forward
     
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