Formula-Retro drivability

re. The Supercup - I dont think thats true, before the update, setting 0Nm viscous lock has 100% fixed the annoying high speed understeer for me. And I could download a bootleg ams2 before the update and make a video but I dont think I want to spend the time on this anymore tbh, especially if Renato says all is good and well.

 

Ah sorry I didnt read that other post yet.

I know its not there, but its still odd that the car feels like when lock was 100Nm :-/ strange ...

 

Ok thanks.
I just had a quick go at Supercup again and it actually is now similar to retro-F feel.
Its a pretty easy test - when I setup the LSD to 0Nm preload and about 80 coast ramp angle with 2 clutches, it will understeer massively on turn in at about 100kmh ... but as soon as I nudge the wheel at 75Kmh, I rotate around my own axis instantly as it should kinda with those diff settings.... so yes, it might not be a diff issue per se, but there is definitely something wrong. And Supercup was just a concidence that I tested recently, it feels the same this way in old Formula cars.

 

I think the issue that I have also noticed throughout the development of AMS 2 at various times with various cars is that there is sometimes a perception of tire grip changing in an irregular manner as speed changes. It affects our brain when the car is sliding when we expect more grip (from aero) at higher speeds, or when the car has too little grip and under steers at low speeds relative to what it does at higher speeds, etc. There are these moments that some ninnies try to pin on a fundamental flaw in the Madness Engine, but we know they can be fixed (and sometimes then un-fixed in another update).

The transition between grip states at various speeds seems to be not always as smooth as it should be, which can result in the example above with the 100 km/h vs. 75 km/h differences. It could be tire grip; it could be the effect of aero; it could be contributed to by diff; but somewhere in the mix there are changes happening on "too steep a curve" or in a stair-step manner instead of a smoother line/ curve, or maybe also some interactive effect(s) that throws us for a loop.

It is not always wrong...but it is good to note these perceptions/discrepancies so that the modelling can be checked and double-checked because often there is something that doesn't agree in the end.

The F-Retros with the significantly mismatched front and rear tires presents a more difficult modelling exercise than most. In a simpler simulation model, the front versus rear grip can be manipulated much more easily than in AMS 2. But, when it finally clicks into place, the AMS 2 result is so much better

 

I agree, but why would the diff coast setup stop affecting the car almost all together above 80kmh? Thats why its all so confusing to me and virtually NO other sim does this.

 

Because it wasn't/isn't just the coast setting of the diff. It is some other (combination likely) thing(s).

 

Ok lets say it isnt. But why is my diff settings causing the car behaving differently below and above this speed threshold? When I setup the diff to what I would expect it to be as it is above 80 right now, it would behave the same below 80, I know that for a fact (because its very close to default).

So why after changing things, the car only uses my changed diff settings below 80 Dont tell me all cars only accept different settings below 80.
Granted, people dont normally do these things, especially with diff, they take the default setup and use it. But I can tell you there is quite a lot of cars that will do this if I go and test it.

EDIT:
Actually, i briefly tried Mclaren GT1 and same thing, with very open diff settings, above 100 all is nice and relatively balanced or even understeery. But around 80 its maximum oversteer. Why?

 

Too many 'informatives', 'agree' or whatevers to list or quotes, to all you chaps but interesting, and maybe some consensus it seems and from what's been said noted by discussed inc RS.
Thanks in advance, I will have to try myself.
meantime have fun.

 

I'm no expert, so most of whats discussed in here is Greek to me, but that quote helped me immensely.Shift down, keep the revs up and the BT44 goes around corners like its on rails. Speilberg Historic is awesome in this car. Thanks for the tip.

 

As for the cornering style Stirling always said slow in fast out and for the most part that may be the case personally I watched RL and seen differences and winners as a result. 4 and 2 wheels.

.
Tried the BT44 last night briefly and the car imo I would not describe as 'broken' I would say first impression in this build (defaulf) it has yes slight less grip on front but nothing compare to 1125, but also a little less on rear, and is soggy ' which it was before.
This build resulting in actually for me a better overall balance though it is slower.
With default and bump stops as mentioned being 0 still drivable.
I used to stiffen all round a lot and lower stops anyhow, so by raising stops to 4 with a stiff suspension and lower Car seems better balanced all round for me mostly because when I lift off throttle the car actually responds with retardation almost immediately which it never did till recent lowering that lag has in itself improve the car. It is a little snappy oversteer at low speed imo but adjusting diff from default will help
At this quick look I would agree with for gen 1 bt44

@InfernalVortex
hi Infernal just a Q yours koalas and Bm time Spa Historic were they before or after USA pack.
Thanks

Docs folder was wiped days ago ref the TC/ABS post from somebody about gte Porsche.
Some say deletion it makes no difference others have confirmed after complaining this week that it cured the issues/complaint so this area still differs from pc/pc person to person perception /experience felt.

 

@Maser V6 which car are you referencing for Spa Historic? I don't think I've set any times on the Spa TT board since the USA pack dropped, but I could be forgetting something.

 

HI B. probably before USA, just thought I would check for reference
and see what its like now.
Thanks

 

I believe I set that time sometime around early- or mid-April.

 

Worth viewing

 

Your reasoning sounds quite logical - and if you are right (and I think you are) then the experienced anomaly could point to an issue in AMS2 - instead of being explained away as some kind of butterfly effect involving all more complicated systems.