Gamepad Support - Analysis, Suggestions, Wishes

Great.
Oversteer is a common problem to tame on gamepad, especially when you move more towards more sensitive linear settings.
This is a good guide as to what to tweak to fix it, not too complex:

Just start with one thing at a time, Anti-roll bar is a good one to tweak first.
Change them a few clicks either way depending on the guidelines, test, tweak, test, rinse repeat. If you go too far no problem, just back it off to the sweet spot.
Low/Soft/Slow = Lower Number
High/Firm/Fast = Higher Number

Brake pressure is also a little high in defaults, easy to scrub the tires off so you can back those of a touch typically too.

 

You absolute legend — this is amazing!

 

Thank @Renato Simioni , I just followed his advice to KISS from an old thread I saved:

Renato Simioni said: ↑
For any handling woes it´s always worth having a go at doing basic setup tweaks, softening rear roll bar or increasing rear wing a bit. I do agree it´s fairly racey atm with more midcorner oversteer in a way other default setups aren´t - fast but not very safe.

That video solved so many problems for me.
A little ARB, maybe some springs, a bit of brake pressure and maybe bias fixes a lot.
Sometimes maybe the diff to 60/60/2 from an old post I found somewhere.

Still learning! Have fun!

 

Something I've found is that you need to be prepared to make changes to controller settings almost like part of the car setup, so it's definitely worth becoming familiar with what the settings do. Some cars are naturally twitchier and some are more compliant. It usually relates to horsepower, so I often find the lower class cars, kind of GT3 and below, to be the most fun to drive on the pad. I guess this again comes down to (lack of) pad player skills and me having 20th century thumbs that haven't evolved into the digital age.

 

Tried my hand at a little settings guide in order to help people start setting up their gamepads properly.

Any additions/corrections?

 

Nice analysis overall, but totally disagree with what you say about vibration/haptics.
While some users prefer (even on wheels) to drive vibration less for maximum focus on speed, haptics are all about adding to the UX of what is a very very narrow slice of reality and the attempt to simulate it.

There's a small amount of value with the current AMS2 vibration in letting you know when you've breached the track limits, which can be useful.

The dirt & rallycross tracks in AMS2 work better with vibration, far better than the frictionless ice skating circuit experience, but are not on the level of what EA WRC has done with independent fine grained engine, suspension, and tire vibration/haptic effects.

A well designed gamepad haptic experience adds huge value, and the fact that some sims have put the development time in to elevate their gamepad haptics (ACC/WRC/BeamNG, ++) to a very high level is evidence of this.

It's also fun when it's done properly.

>>Visualizing curves

If you want to understand the effects different curves have on input I recommend having a play with the demo app from GitHub - AderitoSilva/XInputium: The elemental XInput library for .NET.
It's nicely done, with a variety of curves etc you can apply to inputs so you can get a better sense of how they work, and you can then perhaps understand a little more intuitively how game settings work to do the same, so you can more easily find the sweet spot for your current skill level. You still have to cycle through actually testing them on track, but having no visual feedback of settings in the config is just bad design. Even a simple slider showing you stick movement is better than nothing.

 

Very good video!
A few things I'd add:
-even with controller damping at 0 there's always some damping that slows down steering inputs (Xbox 360 controller, not sure if it's the same with other controllers). There's no option for raw input in AMS2.
-even with controller vibration at 100 there's almost no vibration unless you do something extreme like hit a wall at high speed.
-in the car setup screen the setting is called "steering lock" in English.

I've attached the controller settings screen in English, maybe you could use it as thumbnail, or include it in a future video for reference.

 

This may be the case, alas AMS2 doesn't do this properly and gives feedback about kerbs (and shifts for whatever reason). This is the reason I don't use it, I didn't give any recommendations per se for this setting, just stated what I do and why.
The video is not supposed to be about what vibration should or could do, but about it currently does, which is not a lot.

I will admit I haven't tested it on Rallycross tracks, so I should probably disclaim that I don't know how well it works there.

This is, again, a game design request that would be nice to have but is not there. I'm not sure what place this has in a controller setup guide.

As for the app, thanks for the resource. However we don't know how the curves in AMS2 are calibrated, so the "visualization" might as well just be misleading. I could see adding this to the description, but it would need this disclaimer.

I feel like you're perhaps slightly missing the point of the video, which is to provide a guide on what the settings do and what values are reasonable starting points, not on what they should be able to do were they perfectly implemented. It's not supposed to be an AMS2 controller implementation critique.

The vibration thing seems to be very dependant on what gamepad you use - for me on Dualshock 4 it was quite noticeable when I had it turned on, it just didn't help at all and was misleading most of the time.

Thx for the correction with the steering lock. I'm aware of the "no ability to remove filters" thing, I'm just not sure how relevant this is for beginners (or even most advanced controller players). In order to remove all filters and still drive well, you have to be pretty accomplished controlling your thumbs; this isn't viable for probably 99% of controller players.

 

Because it's an opportunity to learn more about gamepad inputs generally, which is helpful across all games where someone might use them.

The point is people can learn what input modulation is independently of a particular games implementation, or in AMS2's case a lack of good implementation because they are just coasting on the stock lame PC2 gamepad implementation.

By understanding more about how inputs can be modified people are better able to understand themselves what particular settings might be doing in terms of modulation when they go and test them, rather than just rely on someone else's advice, which may or may not be relevant for their context and skill level.

You can do this in AMS2 by cycling between telemetry HUD and Control options (to change the gamepad settings) while playing with the steering and watching the L/R steering position bar on the left of hud. Ideally this display should also be in the options settings themselves so you can check it there too. You need a track with long straights when testing the speed sensitivity though. Ideally it would be great to be able to tweak the gamepad settings in real time from the telemetry hud. Ultimately you need to do it by driving, but a visual check also lets you know if you're in the ballpark before you need to fine tune it.

The fact we're still talking about basics like this 4+ years after release indicates it's still not well understood, and the information is spread over many places.

No one (except Reiza) knows what the actual modifier curves are that are implemented in PC2/AMS2, but likely exponential variants.

Better than circuits, at least, but still a way to go.
dx ACE v0.11 it's not bad (actually it's the most fun gamepad experience in AMS2), the track is less amped up than stock but you can still get some response combined with engine feedback modulated by trigger input level.

 

Imo it's useful to know there's always filters enabled, and people shouldn't be afraid to try lowering damping and speed sensitivity to see if it works with their driving style.
Personally I don't mind the default controller setting being aimed at beginners, that's probably the best thing to do considering beginners don't have the knowledge or patience to test that kind of stuff. But ideally there should be the option to enable raw input and fine tune from there like we can do in AMS1, in that way I can calibrate steering response to be as quick as I want while other people can still enable filters/dampers to make controls match their driving style.
Last night I was playing AMS2 with controller damping at 0 and speed sensitivity at 0 and steering still felt too slow and laggy, then I played rF2 with speed sensitivity at 50 and it felt way more responsive than AMS2.
This removal of controller options is what frustrates me about AMS2.

 

Maybe have a look at the Steam controller options, it does seem to give a high level of control over inputs, and in the hands of someone as experienced as yourself it may be a powerful tool.

 

I just spent 2 hours checking every setting in Steam input, there is no way to enable raw input, whatever settings I change in Steam input the steering is still too slow. Basically if you have a controller plugged in the game forces on automatic controller filters that slow down the inputs. This is not an issue with my controller, or Windows 10, or Steam, it's an issue with the Madness Engine applying filters that cannot be turned off and slowing down steering inputs and making controls feel laggy.

@Renato Simioni is it possible to include the option to enable raw input on controller? Or at least have something like steering rate like we had in AMS2?

 

This is a busy thread and it's bound to get noticed if we keep the discussion lively, even if it's not top of the list of jobs it's hard to imagine Reiza not wanting to address this aspect of the game if it's doable.
What's good about this discussion is that a wide range of players are represented, from highly skilled all assists off players through to full assist numpties like me that are looking for a more accessible pad experience.
I'll have another look at PC1, that had all sorts of weird and wonderful adjustments that nobody had the slightest clue as to their meaning. It's such a shame that the WMD forums were disappeared by EA, that was such a brilliant knowledge base for the Madness engine. I remember there was quite a lot of discussion throughout about gamepad implementation, but I never paid that much attention as I'd only ever played on a wheel.
While FS7 was messing with Steam settings, I was hooking up an extra long HMDI cable between the spare PC and the TV connected to my PS5, so I can now play AMS2 from the sofa with my Xbox controller. It's highly enjoyable, and thinking long term, AMS2 could one day make it to console so all this input on pad play would make a great contribution to that.

 

That how I've always played my PC games, PC sitting next to the TV in the living room, me sitting on the couch with my Xbox 360 controller. I also have a keyboard/mouse stand that I place on my lap to play shooters & rpgs.

 

I imagine Reiza is keeping an eye on controller support if they ever want to publish on consoles. Then again, the size of the team is small enough that the current PC-only model may be working at keeping folks compensated and keeping the lights on.

I made some of the tweaks suggested here to decrease high-speed oversteer. I’ve also mapped increase/decrease brake bias during a race. I tend to decrease it as the race goes on and I get a better feel for the car and track conditions.

My personal best lap at Spa in the McLaren 720S Evo is a tick above 2:19. These edits have me regularly hitting 2:20:00ish with more regularity. I’m so new to this that I want to make sure I don’t overdo it — but I can understand why track tuning can make such a big difference in lap times.

 

I'd love to be optimistic about it, but we're 4 years in and Reiza absolutely refuses to engage on this topic beyond what was raised in 2020 (and which they strongly affirmed back then they would be doing something about it).

Since then, total and absolute radio silence despite issues and great feedback/suggestions being periodically raised in good faith by dedicated gamepad fans.

You can hope and dream all you like, but the evidence indicates lack of interest, or possibly it's just too hard to do with the PC2 gamepad input system and is outside their technical ability, so it's continually been ignored in the hope we'll just shut up about it.
Fat chance of that happening! Simracers can whine like a broken transmission, and easily give flightsimmers an even run for their money when it comes to complaining about sim features;-))

But I don't think we're being totally unreasonable with this topic, given all the points raised previously. It's not even given a cursory hat tip in any of the announcements at all, which tells you something.

It's not like this is eye candy, input systems are the key to a simulation experience whatever the control device.

It's just disappointing in the sense that you know how great a gamepad experience AMS2 would be if it was addressed properly, much more so than career mode or multiplayer. It's the INPUT system fer crissakes;-) You literally use it to perform the core activity, which is DRIVING. Everything else is a bonus.

Anyhoo...there's at least some other great driving experiences that do it properly - even though they are complementary to AMS2, not replacements given the great content - so I guess it's just drive on!

Have fun out there!

 

Meanwhile, in the real world of the gamepad players...

 

Agreed.
Considering how good gamepad support is in AMS1 I'd expect AMS2's gamepad support to be at least as good as AMS1 (which is the promise they made back in 2020 btw).
I mean, I can post decent laptimes in AMS2, but then I switch to AMS1 and the controls are so much better and the game is way more enjoyable to play.
In AMS1 I set all rates to 100%, when I play AMS2 it feels like all the rates are at 50% or something.

 

https://forum.reizastudios.com/threads/automobilista-2-beta-v1-6-cycle-starting-up.33423/

Confirmed: absolutely no interest from Reiza in improving the Gamepad experience in line with sim industry best practices, and also in line with their original stated vision for AMS2 gamepad support.

Just SMH they still don't seem to understand the UX and core driving experience is about the input system, no matter what type of control system you use.

Whatever!

 

I don't have access to the link, but what a shame, I was hoping for an improvement made to the Gamepad

I did believe that Reiza would invest in some time with the Gamepad, shame really as there is no other racing game for me that hits all the right spots like ams2.

What disappointment .