Gamepad Support - Analysis, Suggestions, Wishes

Are you the same guy that a few posts ago declared any physics revisions unnecessary in favour of the gamepad support you wanted? "Brushing off" is not a Reiza original quality it seems, but it's bad if you don't agree with the priorities

We've seen a 2020-2021 season pass that people paid money for and that was fully fulfilled in 2023. We've seen Renato say he considered the physics mostly finished with 1.4 only to then have the most substantial rewrite in 1.5. We've seen - well in short, development of AMS2 hasn't gone to plan at all in terms of timescales. I remember a statement regarding early beginnings of career mode in late 2021...

You seem to think you were misled when backing AMS2. I don't think that's the case - more like fluidity of plans working out to your disadvantage - but if so, what stops you from asking for a refund?

 

If you go back and read closely you'll realise that's hyperbolic argument in the context of not having anything done in gamepad over the last 4 years, while it's been a continual stream of fizziks fizziks fizziks. Of course fizziks is important, but so are other aspects.
And yes, I'm sure 1.6 will be great, whenever it finally drops, they always are, eventually.

I can understand if you're not a native English speaker and don't pick up on the subtext of what I'm meaning there (seriously, languages are a hard thing and context is everything) but that's what I really mean.

Please don't go the refund route. You're demeaning yourself trying that line as a way to shut me down. None of the points I've made are invalid, and other people have made them as much as me. In fact you make a couple of them as well, in your impassioned defense of Reiza above! Good for you!

As for fluidity of plans working to "my" (actually all gamepad users) disadvantage I call bs on that one too.
The deliberate silence on this issue every time it's been raised over the last four years is deafening.

 

Well I get the broken record thing in terms of "but NOW we can focus on other stuff" only to then do the umpteenth big physics revision - however it is the core focus of the game, so I'm giving them more leeway here. I'm also in a discord with two of the three physics developers and can assure you they genuinely thought they would be done soon with the big overhauls at some point during 1.4 and then also after 1.5.3.

There's also a really big desire from Reiza's POV to finally make it stop, because all the "fizziks" revisions slow up the development of every other aspect of the gameplay, too. AI development has also suffered quite a lot due to this. I personally think with 1.6 there's a good chance that it'll be the actual final big revision for once.

Btw, I am calling myself the local gamepad ambassador mainly because I've been trying to make people see it as a serious alternative input device that deserves their attention. Maybe it'll stick at one point.

 

Sure, I get all that. But I bet there will be a 1.7, then a 1.8...whatever!

Good luck, Ambassador.

I'm just here kicking the bins over (again).

I maintain the easiest way to do that is simply point to the peer sims which do proper gamepad implementations. They obviously get it from both a customer perspective and a business perspective. (though even the big ones like EA can screw that up EA WRC *cough*)

 

What do you think is the reason they're ignoring these requests? You think they changed plans, have forgotten their promises and now will leave it as it is indefinitely?

 

I have thoughts, but
I just don't understand the logic when other sims specifically address that aspect as important enough to implement properly, either at release or soon after.

What can you conclude from that, when all you get is radio silence about it here?
Despite having recognized the importance of it at project inception re: AMS1, mind.

You tell me and then we'll both know.

 

I've told you what I think, but you alternatively rolled your eyes or called BS on that, so not sure what to say here

I think Reiza consider controllers the less important input device that are to be worked on "when there's time". Physics and wheel support always take priority (they kinda implied that in the FAQ back then, too). Originally they anticipated to be done with both physics and wheel support much, much quicker than they were, but Madness proved a very tough nut to crack, so the focus on physics especially usurped any plans for pad support, which haven't been developed since release.

If there isn't any information about pad support somewhat soon-ish after 1.6 despite there being no more big fish to fry, I'm gonna start wondering if pad will ever play any role in development, too, but not yet.

 

"when there's time"

I just don't understand the logic when other sims specifically address that aspect as important enough to implement properly, either at release or soon after.

I don't buy the fizziks excuse tbh. It's an input system, it's something that players use.
It's not optional.

Apparently it's not even important enough anymore to say they're not even going to do it. hahah!

Anways, onwards and upwards. I'll be curious to see what the gamepad experience on AC Evo is like at release.

Oh well, AMS2, the little gamepad racing sim that could have been. *shrug*

 

Afaik every single person in the development team is a wheel player, there's nobody in the development team that doesn't own a wheel and plays only with a controller, so that might explain why the promised improved controller support isn't a priority for Reiza.
As much as I'd love to see controller support as good as it was in AMS1 imo if we ever get that it will probably be later in AMS2's development cycle, after career mode is implemented.

 

I play with both a wheel and controller, and quite a lot on Steam Deck, depending how I'm feeling. If I'm playing on the Deck I prefer a much more casual experience, all assists on, easier AI, damage off etc, a more GT7-like setup, and to be honest it works very well. If I want the hardcore experience I put on my Quest Pro, all assists off etc using the wheel and that too is a wonderful experience, but it's bloody hard work and sometimes a more casual take is just fun to do and more relaxing.
Point being, a gamepad may be a more casual way to play for some/many, so the subset of skilled drivers using full realism on a pad may be quite small, hence possibly the lack of development in that area.
For a casual pad player, I don't find much difference between ACC, EA WRC, Dirt Rally and AMS2 (although I agree AMS1 was excellent in this regard). I still think that GT7 pad control is in a different league, but that was designed from the ground up with pad control as the main method.
The point above about PC3 is a good one though, that does play well with a pad, so it's fixable within the engine, but again that might be because it's more focused on casual play than full realism settings.
Anyway TLDR, we should enjoy what we have, maybe one day we'll get what we wish for, AMS2 is very much alive and well and still developing.

 

I suppose gamepad support will magically get good if AMS2 is ever released on consoles...

 

I'm a controller gamer and while I'm open to more options for some more advanced users than me, I find the AMS2 experience with a controller satisfying.
I'm not really a fan of the controller implementation on Project Cars 3 for example. I find that the settings are too casual.
I have AMS1 which also seems satisfactory to me.
Additional options for more professional players but I want the current base to stay because it suits me.

 

Any outsider reading this forum would think that the game is unplayable with a gamepad, when in fact Automobilista 2 is possibly the most gamepad-friendly simulator in existence.

The boar hunter knows I can give examples of how well AMS2 does with gamepad. Do I need to show them?

Laguna Seca - Porsche Cup 3.8
The time will be beatable but, once again, stratospherically above the mid-level people with steering wheel.

 

Just watched your Indycar video around Cadwell, why exactly are you using traction control and ABS? I generally agree with your point that gamepad driving can be done on competitive pace if you know what you're doing, but it's not really saying much if you get there with shortcuts like that.

 

You never really played anything aside from AMS2 then. Granted that this tends to be a subjective topic from what I have seen during my 25+ years simracing, but out of all sims AMS2 is without the shadow of a doubt the one that has the worst gamepad implementation after iRacing. Only that one is worse. Never seen any other sim doing so bad at it, and I played basically all of them.

 

That is a nice video, but I'm afraid it proves some of my points rather than yours. It underlines that vibration would be very beneficial, and it most likely also shows how horrible default controller settings are in this game.

To explain: I've just driven this car myself, it is all around one of the easiest to drive cars in the game and basically forgives everything, albeit a little tricky under braking.

At the same time, you yourself obviously have some idea how to drive a car with a gamepad: There's no abrupt steering, no car veering to the side unpredictably.

Despite this, you are clearly not able to steer it precisely, you don't maximize every corner. Especially you don't seem to have a good enough feeling for the brake, which actually supports the point that we need better vibration (why shouldn't the pad vibrate when the tyre is about to lock up?). You're braking much too early in any case and aren't decisive enough on the brake, lifting off the brake and then putting it back on and lock up when the corner approaches. There's no trailbraking at all. Due to this, you're not taking enough speed into the corners.

Very apparent to me was that I didn't see a single instance of proper countersteer despite this game notoriously having a lot of it.

By my estimation, because of these factors, your best lap is around 3 seconds off the pace.

That is not meant to sound patronizing, because I think your issue is twofold:

First, you'd probably indeed benefit from some vibration to get better feeling for the brake.
Second, your controller settings seem to be completely unsuited to proper, controlled racing at the limit, instead you're relying on driving so carefully that the car will never break traction, also using too high gears for most corners (or are you not shifting manually?). That way, you're actively avoiding having to countersteer. I suspect you're using default settings with minimal adjustments.

Default settings are made for people that can't drive with controller, but if you have some ability and use these, they also absolutely cap your potential; you'll most likely never be significantly quicker than you are now while using default controller settings.

Maybe you don't consider these things problematic, but with easy cars like F-USA or GT3, the issues with default settings kinda get covered up. It's much worse when it comes to driving F-Retro, F-Vee, cars like that.

And just so this doesn't come across as me talking when I have no idea, have some gamepad laps of mine.

Controller settings:
50 for steering, throttle and brake sensitivity (you can go down to 30, this will mean you have a little more control over traction)
0 for deadzones
10 for Controller Damping (set this as low as you can deal with, try to go no higher then 25-30. The car will become more twitchy this way, but low damping will allow you to make quick corrections with controller.)
60 Speed Sensitivity (you may comfortably set this to 80 if you feel like the car is too twitchy in higher speed corners, but not higher, because you will be hit with a lot of low speed understeer if you do).

 

Very interesting your comment and surprised by your video. Wow!

I'm busy now. In the next few days I will make a comment exchanging impressions, not videos, I think.

PS: ... very interesting... I liked your answer.

 

I really enjoy AMS2, but every time I play, I find myself constantly tweaking settings, which ends up frustrating me. I own a G27 wheel, but after a full day of work, the wheel feels too serious and physically demanding. I prefer using a controller, especially since I play a lot on my Steam Deck.

After testing several games, I've come to a conclusion: the best simulator for controllers is RaceRoom Racing Experience. It's perfect on a controller. I actually enjoyed the controller experience in RaceRoom more than in Gran Turismo. And when I want a more relaxed experience, I go for Project Cars 3.

I’ve spent a lot of money on RaceRoom content just because of how amazing it is on a controller. I highly recommend both games.

Also, the vibration feedback in RaceRoom on the controller is amazing.

I really wish developers would pay more attention to controllers. Wheels are great, but I'm not motivated by the space and ergonomic effort they require.