Grass. I just don't understand it. Help.

I wanted to show that one can get back on track easily. I don't get why you are so upset about this. Stay on track if you think grass is too slippery. I do not want Reiza to waste time to simulate driving physics on grass.

Edit: I do not want Reiza to waste time on it because I already consider it realistic (enough).

 

Realistic in the wet...maybe, in the dry...no!

 

Watch an F1 car driving through grass, it’s not hard and not easy. That’s how I see AMS2 grass to be like. I don’t really understand your issue since the grass is good enough IMO

 

Check out Pato O'wards recovery from his spin at just after the 2 minute mark. His car gets unsettled either by the grass or the kerb, it is super close so for the sake of acting in good faith let's assume it's the kerb. He then went through almost the full length of the gravel trap getting rid of most of his speed, though still heading towards the wall.



Here you can see him doing what you'd expect him to do. Turn sharp left to try and avoid the wall, bare in mind this still at relatively low speed with very little throttle application keeping the RPM as low as possible.



At around 2:08, despite this happening at a low speed with little throttle application Pato has to go FULL opposite lock to keep control of his car.



At 2:11 is when he finally stops counter-steering, that is (once again acting in good faith) 3 seconds of counter-steering because of a low speed slide in the grass with little throttle application.

Then you can see him quickly flick the wheel to the left again to avoid the barrier before once again counter-steering to the right.



Right before he reaches the escape road he straightens his wheel out. I personally believe that he straightened it out right before because he knows that any unwanted slide will stop the second he reaches said escape road. However it is also possible that he simply didn't need to counter-steer any more as he had already settled the car, so let's say the latter is the case.



He still keeps the same throttle application (though definitely a bit more than earlier) and then right around as his front wheels leaves the escape road he starts to really accelerate, knowing that the rear wheels are on the escape road and that he won't have to make any major steering adjustments to get back on track.



However Pato gets a bit impatient and continues to accelerate even as his rear tires hit the grass. He's able to mostly get away with it due to the patch of grass being fairly short and his car being settled with the wheel pointing straight. Right around the time he enters back onto the track he looses grip again and has to quickly let off the gas and counter-steer to the left to make sure car doesn't go back into the grass.

What I see in this video is very similar to my experince in AMS 2, maybe Pato is getting away with sharper steering movements but that's really it. And even then, it's hard to determine whether that's because he has a lot of experince with the car or that IRL grass is more forgiving than AMS 2 grass (I say it's a bit of both).

I think it's true that AMS 2's grass is less forgiving than it is IRL, but you still have to use the same techniques that real racing drivers do to get off of the grass without causing more problems. Be careful with the accelerator and be patient, only floor it when you know that all 4 wheels are back on the track.

 

Correct!

 

Just stay on the tarmac. This is not an off road game.

 

Remember what tracks and cars are in the game

 

Hi all. I'm relatively new to AMS2, coming from a lot of time on Assetto Corsa. Overall so far I think I prefer AMS. I prefer the handling, slides feel more progressive and easier to hold and control, and although its a bit more cartoony than AC, I think overall its more polished and looks very nice, but there is one thing that I can't ignore... What the hell is up with ice-rink grass?! I've driven a car on grass numerous times in real life. Although less grippy than tarmac, it has grip. Plenty of it on a dry day actually. Was the guy that came up with the physics from Iceland and is unaware that grass doesn't just make a car borderline uncontrollable?? Such a weird thing to get so wrong. I can't help but feel that this is a minor thing to change in regards to coding time, but would fix what I'd consider as a clear "mistake"/lack of realism. That aside, I'm really enjoying the game so far. The AI seems pretty good and it makes for fun racing even when playing alone

 

My advice would be to take a video including the speedo of you driving on the grass IRL (ask the owners permission) and a video of you driving the supposed 'ice grass' in AMS 2, again, including the speedo.

That aside, I find my lap times in AMS 2 are lower avoiding the grass even if the route isn't as direct and I have to slow a bit to stay on the grey bit. Try that (I even found it quite fun twisting and turning - they should make a game where that's the idea)

 

Yes Shadow, I can see your point. Instead of accepting that there is a flaw, Michael is jumping to the games defence with stupid comments. However, unfortunately for Michael I have got a 735bhp supra which I have driven on grass, and guess what, touching the throttle didn't have me going in circles. AMS2 is a great game so far, but the lack of grip on grass is unrealistic, it's as simple as that.

 

Which should make the video comparison easy to do. I can't wait.

You could even go and find some ice and drive on that.

 

I guess they changed it back while you weren't looking?

 

Honestly, I have to wonder why you have a hard time accepting the grass physics are a bit messed up (which they are). When pulling away again after a big crash, any amount of throttle in low gears will result in a big loss of traction and excessive spinning if control is lost. The behavior is much more like very wet grass even when the sun is beaming down. Something I did read is that the game only has one set of physics for grass, weather has no influence, but if that's the case then just keep it somewhat grippy, don't make it permanently insanely slippy. What should be a 5s mistake and recovery when you go off easily turns into 10-15s when you make the mistake of daring to touch the throttle and spin again.

 

Grass feels fine to me.

 

It's easy because you started using the i-word. Right there in the title.

It just lost all credibility. But I didn't say you were wrong. I said post a video showing how you drive on the grass in the game and IRL.

Is it? I thought it was like ice?

 

If you want a serious discussion, it's not a good idea to make blanket statements and use hyperbolic claims like this. Instead, show the receipts! Find an example in real life where a car was able to keep the car in control on the grass, and then try to replicate the same conditions in AMS2.

For example, here is a 2019 Porsche GT3 RS driving off the track onto grass and making it safely back on track at VIR, with telemetry (skip to 30 seconds to see the incident):

Note how the driver comes off throttle (just a little bit of maintenance throttle) and goes off the grass at 100mph but is down to 75mph before he rejoins the track. The driver stays in 3rd for a long time, but shifts to 4th before rejoining, in order to get a smoother track rejoin. An effort is made to keep inputs as smooth as possible.

And below I'm trying to replicate the incident in three cars, I set the telemetry to use Freedom Units, since that's what's used in the original real-life clip. Time Trial mode.

First in the Porsche Cup (I don't know if the GT3 RS had slicks or road tires, but the Porsche Cup is on slicks). I made three attempts. The first one below is the most similar in driving input to the real life clip, on the second attempt I accelerated back up to 100mph when rejoining, and on the third attempt I would do what I'd do in a race: try to stay at speed and even accelerate, with relatively heavy but smooth throttle input to not upset the rear

Then in the Super V8, which has a locked rear differential and I think also more torque than the 2019 Porsche GT3 RS? Still on slicks:

Finally, I did the same with the Caterham 620R, perhaps the most difficult-to-drive and easy-to-spin car in AMS2, but with semi-slicks. In the second half of the clip I voluntarily drive off track and from a standstill I rejoin the track quite aggressively:

So, MacAttack, the best way to show the receipts with your claim would be to share a video where a race car similar to one we have in AMS2 goes onto the grass and is not driving like on ice, and then try to replicate the conditions in AMS2 as closely as possible, but being unable to with the same speed and inputs as in the real life clip. Because in the clips I shared, I was able to drive more aggressively than the real life clip and still survive, even with more difficult cars than the one used in the real life clip.

EDIT: And just to clarify my position, MacAttack: It's not that I don't believe you - there have been plenty of times in AMS2 development where the community has found inaccurate physics that need to be adjusted by Reiza in a later update. I just want to see data that supports your claim.

 

Thank you so much for this comparison! I hope this will end the "discussion". I am so sick of people claiming AMS2's grass was too slippery.

I don't see any problems with cars' behaviour on grass in Automobilista 2 at all.
So thank you very much again.

Edit: I tested the BMW M1 Procar on grass 7 months ago. Even it's in German you can see that the car is controllable on grass if you are careful with your inputs.

 

To be honest, I'm not going to get my car and go to do grass testing. I've driven it on grass in first gear, rwd, 735bhp. At no point did I nearly spin. I've googled this issue and have found people say they avoid this lack of traction by only using 3rd or 4th on grass. While this is a solution, it shouldn't be necessary. In first gear, the smallest of throttle inputs will light up the rear, then if you let off the throttle the slide has already started and this inherent lack of grip makes it really hard to recover. Even the amount the car spins once control has been lost at low speed just isnt true to reality, because there is next to no tyre friction. To be honest if the Devs feel that this is an accurate depiction of driving on grass, then what am I going to do?? I was just flagging it. Its a small issue that can be avoided by staying on the track, but for me and what I know to be true in real life, its not an accurate depiction.

 

Why not show it? The worst that can happen is they fix it isn't it?

We see which car you're talking about, we'll see your first gear with barely any throttle input and the car spinning around and around and think "Yeah that doesn't make sense"

And note the other guy complaining about grass is really complaining that he can't shortcut the track like he probably has in other games. And the guy who posted videos assumed you were talking about leaving the grass and getting back on track at some speed.

See why videos are helpful? Because what you're talking about is trying to go from standstill on the grass. And most people reading your post are going think that you're just planting your right foot in a powerful car and it spins. So if you're not doing that I'd post a video.

So donuts I see people doing on tarmac IRL are imaginary then? Cars don't spin IRL at low speed?

 

You don't need to provide more evidence, although that would help. The thing is: Even when we believe you, the claim doesn't match up with what happens in the game.

You haven't mentioned what car in AMS2 you're comparing to your real car, but let's take your 735hp statement (it's really the torque that matters, but those correlate somewhat anyway) and then find a car that matches.
What about the McLaren Senna in Hypercar class? 815hp, 825Nm, semi-slicks.

In the last half of this clip, I'm applying full-throttle from a standstill (but keeping the steering wheel straight - that's important!) and then coming off the throttle in a series of 1-second stabs. Now, that's not how I would drive normally. I would normally apply 25-30% throttle, which I do in the beginning of the clip.

In order to lose control, I have to turn off traction control and go full throttle:

I'm unable to reproduce your claim that "the smallest of throttle inputs will light up the rear" when starting from standstill on the grass. (well, techcially, the rear does light up, but the car remains in control). But it is true that once you lose control, it is hard to recover, so I believe you there.

Again, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, it's just that your claim doesn't line up with what I experience on my end. In that case, the burden of proof should be on you - it shouldn't be expected of your audience to use all our steelmanning and video clip creation efforts trying to find evidence for your claim when you haven't done so yourself.