Group C cars grip under acceleration

I’m in the Sauber now. Now default is 85 turbo. I went to and also hard tires and car was a little more beastly. I know what I’m missing bus the big turbo kick in. From 5k to 7k redline, that massive kick isn’t there Now we all can adjust the gearing. For me i prefer 2nd gear around the water fall

 

17 laps of fuel soft tires 100 turbo boost with 87f track temp 127f 1:13.655 best lap. It feels more like a gte around Long Beach and should be just a lot of short shifting

 

Ok so I went and tried a couple of cars to test this issue out further, went on a tour du Ayrton.
- 1991 Mp4/6 felt fine, grip as expected
- 1988 Mp4/4 car felt nerved on 90% boost, you could hardly feel the turbo kick in and the car seemed to have too much grip under those circumstances. So that lead me to start thinking it would be an issue related to the turbo's (as the '91 doesn't have it). But then my assessment of the Formula V10 gen 2 also suffering from too much lateral grip wouldn't make much sense neither...

Next I tried the Lotus 98/T as that's also a powerful beast on the boost, car felt as expected and fine it would kill you in an instance.

In short I believe this to be a tyre or grip balancing issue, where some classes (or maybe cars) feel neutered and like they aren't a challenge anymore, whilst other classes feel perfectly fine.

 

Having tried the Sauber I would say that if this is happening (easy drive out of corners), it's either:
A) a glitch of some kind
B) exceptionally talented alien drivers
C) someone got Xzibit to fit a TC system

I actually felt it was fairly similar (in a good way), and I still have auto-clutch on, and tend to turn more cautiously in and out of corners.

 

T

There’s no big turbo lag, these cars had a huge amounts of turbo lag, especially 2nd gear

 

The C9 was always the best of the class by far if you put some setup work on it. And it's how it should be until Reiza brings Jaguars into the fray.

 

I mentioned in another thread that mods did have an affect on my core game mechanics. I uninstalled the mods and verified files, steam downloaded 22 files. I also mentioned it to the mod maker, because of light steering in mods and core game feeling. Atleast rule it out first.

 

Not a single mod installed on my end, nor did I ever install one for AMS2 so can't be that.

 

Got it, it worked for some with the slides. It just comes down to an individuals preference or interpretation of how these cars should drive, which becomes a balancing act for Reiza.

 

The C9 had a 5l Twin-Turbo V8. In a twin-turbo system you have a smaller turbocharger that spins up faster and earlier in the rev range, and that helps to spool up the second and bigger turbocharger. If there was turbo lag, then it had to be minimal. There was no huge amount of turbo lag.

Porsche had to use the single turbo air-cooled engine from the 935 in IMSA but if I'm not mistaken we have the 962C (cars of AMS2 website does also say so), which also ran in a TT configuration.

I think sim racing is just too different than RL racing. We can't have everything. Cold slicks and lots of power mean instant death. Cold rubber does not generate grip, it is like ice. If you implement something like that, - no offense - half of your player base wouldn't complete an outlap, not because they suck but maybe because of lack of experience/patience/whatever, in sim racing there's no physical harm done if you just floor it as if there was no tomorrow.

I'm all for as much realism as possible but imo cold tyres have to be a bit more forgiving. It probably is a bit too forgiving atm, yes.

 

re balancing is definitely needed on some cars. They feel that grippy and nerved that it looks more like an issue/bug than people's preferences though.

 

Twin turbo is two identical turbos. Twins. It's described by its own term. What you are describing is a more complicated system called "bi turbo", and IIRC was first developed by Renault for their F1 cars in 1979, trying to solve the turbo lag problem.

Where you are correct though, is that the C9 did not have huge amount of turbo lag. As it was a throaty V8 engine with lots of displacement, it did not need huge turbos with big amounts of forced induction. So it had the driveability, the torque, the acceleration, and the adjustments for meeting the fuel quota, speeding up and slowing down as the race required. It was the best engine of the field by far.

Correct. IMSA mandated single turbos and was more demanding in the engines matching specs from their road legal derived parts. This is why the 962s at IMSA couldn't use water cooled cylinder heads, and teams had to cut open a big air intake on the engine cover. At one year, twin turbos were allowed though. Cannot recall exactly when that was, but I think it was 1988, at the same time that restrictors were mandated and cars couldn't hit the insane power outputs that cars like the March-BMW were achieving.

Valid points. I remember that a couple years ago, Renato said that while they were aiming to improve simulation and be as realistic as possible, they could err on the cautious side and have cars being a bit more permissive to drive. There are many valid reasons for going down this design path, and while I consider myself a "hardcore" simracer, I have no problems with it, because I know that it can still make the end product all realistic, challenging and fun at the same time

 

Edit: Looked it up, a Twin-Turbo configuration can also consist of a smaller and bigger turbocharger. Bi-turbo Vs. Twin Turbo - Precision Turbo Services
That's probably why sometimes in articles it says Bi-Turbo and sometimes Twin-Turbo. Doesn't really matter, the point was that the C9 had no huge turbo lag because 2 or 1 smaller turbocharger spin up faster than a single big one.

 

Thing is there is almost no challenge anymore with the cars that feel neutered. Best way I could describe them is that they have some sort of stability control enabled almost whilst in many cases they are classic beasts with not much aids to speak off.

 

Well, yes. More cars to Group C would be nice. I drove Monza 1991 and tested all cars in qualify.

My times:

Sauber C9: 1:29.1

Nissan R89C: 1:29.3

Corvette GTP: 1:29.5

Porsche 962C: 1:31.0

Not too big gap when I drive there cars to limit or close to it, but AI is another matter. Sauber AI is fast but other cars AI not so.

 

Good info!

 

TBH, I never focused on LDF. I drove them on HDF tracks solely. And doing a bit of development, on race trim, I would go 3 secs faster on the C9 compared to the rest at Spa 93.

 

I understand this. And some cars may feel this way now. But as devs said, more updates and recalibrations will happen. So far I have only driven Stock Cars (put in more laps last night) and was able to spin the car by completely messing up my corner entry, or biting too much grass at high speeds (and I was not deliberately making mistakes, just pushing the envelope). Limits are there to punish you if you go really deep. The game is now asking to be more aggressive, but still not drive like an idiot. It may change depending of the chosen car of course.

 

Exactly, some are perfectly fine, others have 'the issue'. I mentioned a couple above try the MP4/4 for example that felt neutered on the turbo and corner exits even on 90% boost when I tried it yesterday, whilst the 98T was still the beast it was before 1.5.

 

* double post