Group C cars grip under acceleration

this is flat foot and more like a gt3 or gte out off apex. Video is too big, I’ll have to edit. The turbos spool up and I should maybe explained it better. The turbo isn’t kicking in as it should. I ran AC and it pulls a lot harder, so much where you short shift it. These cars in their day the first lap or two it was short shift all gears until they got heat in the tires. Even after you had to be gingerly on corner exit, not the case here, currently

The Sauber did at the end of the Group C era in rl

 

This thread is about Group C, and a few comments about the MP4/4, which is pretty docile now.

 

Edited ams2 Sauber
iPhone videos argggg no bueno

 

I’ve found that adding more clutches to the diff in the Sauber makes the rear more lively. Also, reduce rear downforce.

 

I like AC and I like their 962 but imo the lack of grip even with some heat in your tyres is unrealistic. What is it, a single point tyre model? Just because people love AC it doesn't necessarily mean that everything it does is realistic. What happens in other games is irrelevant imo, especially if the software is 10+ years old. The only thing that counts is what happened (and still happens) on real tracks, if we care about realism.

 

I get that, I didn’t want this to be a post of AC is real and ams2 isn’t. Prior to this build Ams2 was more like AC. How it is now is not characteristic of that car. Now I haven’t went in and adjusted the diff to make it become what it was. Now if they’ve changed the diff drastically to make it easier that could make sense. As far as a 10 yr old engine (not a fanboi of AC) the same could be said of this engine, may be newer but many issues.

 

this video is complete opposite. The one prior is more like you’d expect with wot in a gt3

 

I don't think AMS2 is 100% accurate, but videos like this show that the car isn't trying to kill you all the time even at half throttle out of slow corners. I would say he is being quite aggressive with the throttle. Maybe it's somewhere in between.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx22Jo7pcWe5MWL0IHObA0vKk29D_eiJo4
Another video, heavy throttle use out of La Source:

 

AC's C9 is strictly LDF version, which was raced only at Le Mans with the full Hunaudieres straight. And you need to tiptoe with it all the way around any track, doing all your inputs extremely slowly like in front of a dog with rabies. I did an online race with it at Monza 88, and when developing a setup for it I went for max wing minimum rake and very soft rear end so it did not kill me, and spent the whole event caressing a wild beast. It was an interesting challenge, but with zero realism. Won the race but it was more stressing than fun.

I don't think this is a good comparison at all.

 

Thats a C11 not C9. The car was refined more and was top in its class. Early group c the 956 was the best in class


The 5 litre, twin-turbo Mercedes-Benz M119 engine was retained from the older car and was sourced directly from the Mercedes engine facility at Untertürkheim. It was developed by Willi Muller and Gerd Witthalm and was returned to Stuttgart after every race, the transmission remaining at the Sauber facility at Hinwil. In race trim, it was tuned to produce around 730 hp (540 kW; 740 PS), which gave the best combination of power and efficiency for Group C, which was a fuel allocation formula. In high boost, it could go up to 2.4 Bar and make 850 hp at 7,000 RPM

 

I used the default Red Bull setup from AC so it could have had the LDF set. I did a lot of research on the CART cars and usage of their turbo, % etc. Ams2 doesn’t have onboard turbo adjustments. I ran both at 85%. In rl I’d like to know what they ran

 

You can't change the bodywork on vanilla's C9 at AC, only tweak its setup. It will always be LDF, because it's the only one Kunos licensed. A very awkward decision.

 

Thanks for the info, been about 3 years since I’ve been in AC. And going into the setup, there’s no options. So my AC video is a poor comparison. Is the Spa set in AC LDF also?

 

Yes. For a 1 to 1 comparison, drive the C9 in both games at present day Monza. It will load LDF C9 on AMS2.

 

I’ll give that a try later.

 

The difference we feel now compared to this build, could that be the wrong df package was present. I wish we were able to choose the aero package

 

Too much grip I still think

 

I turned a low 1:36. AC was a low 1:42. I can hustle ams2, AC not Al all. I think AC same track temp setup the same, too wild and tires really don’t come up too temp.

 

Finally did my first laps with the 962C Spa 93, with historical date and weather for the 1989 WSPC round.

It's without a doubt more planted than before. It's quite noticeable exiting Bus Stop Chicane, you can floor it earlier. But it's not without wiggles or rear end not wanting to step out. It's also less compliant over bumps and kerbs, and mistiming your throttle on them can cause unwanted snaps. You can easily bring it back under control though.

It gives me the impression that the monococque of the car is now softer than before, as the car feels less tight and a bit more wandering. Which I guess it's also why it did not easily accept the stiffer springs it now uses, weight transfers being quite abrupt and causing unwanted balance changes, and experiencing wheel chattering, specially when fuel load is still higher. It is also easier to lock up under braking than before, and the corner entry phases at higher speeds seem to require more precision than in the past, as the car does not pinpoint the lines as exactly as before. Considering that 962Cs were infamous for their understeer, this does not seem out of character. I also like the increased resistance on a straight line, that is helping a lot in bringing laptimes towards more accurate performances IMO.

While I know it's not what the car actually used in real life, I went for softer springs at the front, as usually on AMS2 cars you get a better handling by trying to follow weight distribution with spring rates, decreased ride heights while respecting rake, tweaked a bit front dampers, maxed out caster (I always do this), decreased rear toe in, put one more click on the wing and brake bias more towards the rear, and shortened gears. End result was a more predictable car that was easier to brake and pinpoint, but basically retained the character described in the paragraph above.

If this car uses same tyres as Sauber in game (it was not the case in real life), I can understand the complaints in the handling of the C9. Will find out next time I fire up AMS2.

Over and out