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Jimmy's latest AMS2 review

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by farcar, Jun 17, 2021.

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  1. Laurie Howard

    Laurie Howard New Member

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    Yes just like me saying that Fortnites physics are all janky and cartoon like, thus ACC must be janky and cartoon as well.
     
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  2. Zeraxx

    Zeraxx Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Hahah I love that analogy it really points out the flaw in logic a lot of people have, a lot of it just comes down to people don't know how game design works, and the different roles each part of the technology stack plays in the end product.
     
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  3. SoloWingX

    SoloWingX New Member

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    This is a very delicate thing and not an easy issue to solve. On one hand you don't want to have a bad influence on the developer and product, on the other hand sugar coating everything is dishonest towards the consumers. Now either you try to balance what you say, which in fairness I think Jimmy did, apart from expressing that he's not really in line with the driving model he did called it the most immersive experience in VR and recommended it for fun offline racing (which I don't really agree with, whatever), or something along these lines. Or you don't make videos at all. He for sure did not say AMS2 is bad, nobody should buy AMS2. This update that is actually really hyped up by other content creators in his opinion is not a game changer from the aspects he considers the most important... driving experience.

    "Nothing but love to the guys at Reiza and AMS2, I want this to be as successful as it possibly can be, but I don't think it's there yet" sure is a middle finger.
     
  4. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    Does Fortnite really run on the same engine as ACC? Didn't know that.
     
  5. Laurie Howard

    Laurie Howard New Member

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    Yes they both run on unreal engine, although fortnite is now on unreal 5 and ACC is still on unreal 4. Loads of stuff are on unreal engine. Everything from Quake Unreal Tournament from 15 years ago to Rocket League to PUBG to some city Sims and now ACC. It is the perfect analog in this regards, just because you share an engine with another game has little bearing on the type of game or the style, physics etc. Yes I can generally tell an unreal engine game on sight but I'm not going to argue that ACC and Rocket League have the same car handling quirks.
     
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  6. Split Second

    Split Second Active Member

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    Unreal engine.
     
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  7. Koen_Sch

    Koen_Sch Member

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    Fortnite is a better racing sim than ACC, confirmed.

    Jokes aside, this is by far the best argument against the madness argument.
     
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  8. Laurie Howard

    Laurie Howard New Member

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    I've even used unreal engine for virtual building tours
     
  9. Split Second

    Split Second Active Member

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    They will say that the madness engine has limitations that are not there with the unreal engine.
     
  10. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    AMS2 is not perfect, we know that...there are some issues, some bigger than others and time consuming not only for Devs but for users too (as proved by some forum threads about TC lol).

    What I don't understand is...

    Why ACC was released in worse status than AMS2 and no bashing?
    ACC moved from 1 point tyres patch to 5 points during the first year, they needed to fix the exploding tyres on kerbs, was running bad on old pc (and still doesn't run good in VR) etc etc

    Same for Raceroom, they are finally moving to new FFB system, no more "fake" FFB but finally based on suspensions geometry, etc etc...after how many years?

    What about AC? Praised for its weather, new shaders and patches, etc but those are mods and you need to read tons of documents before having all working properly...

    Better not start with rF2 where a single UI takes ages and still not there...same for graphics....maybe physics and ffb are the only part of ISI heritage still working...

    The point is every single SIM isn't perfect, is changing a lot during is life and development cycle...so why so much hate when not being one of the games above?

    I own them all, I would like to play them all (but no time lol) but when I am not behind my plastic wheel...why can't talk about a SIM without being labelled as fanboy or being bullied for "defending" a title?

    So again...what worries me isn't Jimmy, GM, Hermin, etc opinions...as I don't trust the most negative ones I am one who doesn't like the too much positive ones too (because being too biased is bad overall too)...I am worried about toxicity in general, something is growing too fast and YTbers are putting fire on it for clicks....
    This toxicity somehow reached Reiza forums too on the latest months...

    Simracing communities are worse than CallOfDuty VS Battlefield ones now lol

    PS: Quake is based on GTKRadiant engine btw...
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  11. David Peres

    David Peres Active Member

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    Sure AMS2 is not perfect and us fans can acknowledge that as well, but the issue I see with Jimmy's videos (and a few others) is the completly dismissive way in which he talks about it, as if Reiza was just trying to make a Need For Speed game or something similar. It's such a lack of respect for such a hard working team and it should be obvious by their tireless work on physics improvements that their goal is definetely not that.

    Why not just make a more balanced video and talk about what he feels to be wrong but also about the things that are clearly better (like Billy Strange did, and he was very critical in his previous videos as well) without resorting to that kind of negative biased attitude just because of the engine? What does Jimmy know about the inner workings of the Madness Engine?

    On the other hand, the industry is now getting in a position where developers do need youtubers/influencers sometimes, and going against them and souring relationships might not be the best idea in the long term.

    The best is for Reiza to just keep doing their job and eventually when they have a better grasp of the engine and the physics are in a more "finished" state across most content, they should do what @Enagee suggested and start posting some official videos about their physics development like Aris, Neils and sometimes Alex (Sector 3) do. This might be usefull to dispel some of the misconceptions and ignorance that keeps spreading about the Madness Engine, from people who have no idea what physics development for a sim entails.
     
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  12. Split Second

    Split Second Active Member

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    Imo ACC wasn't worse than AMS2. It already had a clear feeling for their physics that people already generally liked from the beginning. Then they seamlessly switched to 5 points and there was no problem with the switching.
    And ACC also got a bit of flak for their problems.
    The difference is goodwill. ACC people and streamers had a lot of goodwill towards ACC because they love AC and felt the physics in ACC were pretty great from the start apart from some little bugs.
    Now this would be the same if AMS2 had used the same engine as AMS or unreal engine. But they use the madness engine. And there are very negative feelings towards it and also many feel the madness engine has serious weaknesses without knowing the innards of the engine.
    That's why some people are much less patient with AMS2 imo. And they don't like the fact it is a long term project. And that there are still major things changing in the physics (they rather would have liked they would have nailed the physics in the first few months and build from there).
    Isn't there some tech demo of quake running on the unreal engine with raytracing?
     
  13. Billy Blaze

    Billy Blaze Active Member Reiza Backer

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    So many words come out of JB's mouth that there can be very little depth or meaning to them, it's all surface. How one "reviews" a product when they haven't fully explored it is beyond my comprehension. Clearly, this video was made because it had to be made, not because he's interested in exploring what AMS 2 has to offer. There was a big update and DLC, and (more importantly) all the other channels were making videos about it, so he has to do one too. He needs to eat next month. At this point I think his videos are less about sim racing, and more about interacting with his fans - which is where the money comes from. Bottom line - this video is worth about as much effort as was put into it - which is almost zero.
     
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  14. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff Reiza Backer

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    Was a game changer so I wouldn't say seamlessly but this is my opinion of course so don't take it too seriously lol
    No idea to be honest, need to check, just referring to old game...and now I reminded myself how old I am...
     
  15. SoloWingX

    SoloWingX New Member

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    Apart from YouTube, where we cannot say "Jimmy you made a video about AMS2, not you must do one about rF2 too" or whatever... each sim is getting or used to get its proper bashing on forums, etc.

    ACC did get a lot of criticism in the beginning before the 5 point update. It is still criticized how bad it runs in VR. AC still has its own dramas in even in the modding community recently, regarding encryption. RaceRoom in the very beginning, oh boy, that sim was dead when it came out and rightly so, it's been getting a lot of attention since quite recently with the revised online... I personally bash it for how bad it runs, needs extremely good single core performance. rF2 gets plenty of bashing as well about the UI and general direction, as I mentioned earlier it also had a forum war against Ermin when he made the video about the setups, I personally bash rF2 every time I get to talk about their crap digital dashboards with stretched fonts in premium cars. iRacing is still often called iceracing from the old days.

    Thing is, AMS2 can feel strange with the very fundamental thing that is driving. For new people it's okay, but old people who experienced AMS and its predecessors are salty because they know Reiza can make magnificent feeling cars, the F3 from AMS is still one of my favourite cars of simracing although as I wrote earlier I can no longer play AMS due to anti-aliasing not working. That's why those "older" (in simracing age) people are salty about Reiza going with Madness, the "bad" behaviour in AMS2 is similar to the "bad" behaviour from the SMS games, although much reduced. This argument in this very thread against Jimmy, that he drove the Caddy and not the RSR or something else is also funny, Madness games such as PC2 used to be where some cars feel awesome, some cars feel terrible. On RaceDepartment when the GT3s/GT4s/PCup and Nurburgring GP came out and we criticized the terrible bumpiness and discussed about why doesn't Reiza first fix the physics and releases cars later with polished physics, Renato wrote that from a business perspective releasing content brings more customers so that is the priority, or something along those lines. Well this is the risk that Reiza is taking and these videos can be the consequences.

    Maybe, I could be wrong though. Just my view. However in such a niche genre as simracing, I don't think a video like what Jimmer released does a lot. There have been terrible releases with terrible reviews and when the sim got fixed and decent the popularity went up anyways. Thing is, we cannot be very picky, especially now, not much development, ACC slowly with possible DLCs, AC2 in a couple of years maybe, rF2 and R3E with slow content drops, nothing "new" on the horizon. If AMS2 got suddenly "fixed" (don't know if the developers thing there is an issue) it would get popular quickly, regardless of videos (although more positive videos would be full of simracing related YT in that case).
     
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  16. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence German localization/Testing Reiza Backer

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    Nvidia User?

    Get "NVIDIA inspector", click on the wrench/screwdriver symbol next to the driver version in this little program, search for the Automobilista profile or create one and set Antialiasing compatibility to this and apply changes:
    amsfix.png

    Now you should be able to run AMS1 with new Nvidia drivers/cards and AA support, determinated by the config tool of AMS1 itself without using window/borderless and any hidden vsync :)
     
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  17. SoloWingX

    SoloWingX New Member

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    AMD :/ Tried forcing through the drivers but didn't work.
     
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  18. azaris

    azaris Well-Known Member

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    The difference is, ACC has paid pro drivers (who have never tried any other sim, maybe some of them failed in iRacing once or twice) glowing about how realistic it is, and the lead physics guy doing 2+ hour streams he goes into minute details of physics modelling that exists in pretty much every other major sim. Marketing matters.

    Also helps when physics/default setups are tuned so that every car is understeering like driving a metal sled full of rocks with tyres made of ice. By turning your driving simulator into an understeer rhythm game you also make it easy for random music producers/influencers and tired sim-dads to drive without spinning, because real life race cars never have loose rears and are 100% glued to the road at all times.
     
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  19. Brainbug

    Brainbug Inside Virtual Reality Reiza Backer

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    Now ermin also. :po_O

     
  20. Split Second

    Split Second Active Member

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    Project Cars 2 also had paid pro drivers. So why were so many people negative about the physics?
    Also your comments about ACC look very wrong. There are many pro drivers who praised it without anyone paying them.
     
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