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Le Mans

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Flo Renz, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Flo Renz

    Flo Renz New Member

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    Is it planned to include (classic) Le Mans into the game? I really hope so since it is one of the most iconic tracks in the world.
     
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  2. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    Not been announced and, if I'm honest, I very much doubt it will happen - it's famously a very expensive licence to acquire. Note that it was in Project CARS 2 but not in 3.

    Pity, because the 1970s version in PC2 is an amazing recreation.
     
  3. Flo Renz

    Flo Renz New Member

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    Yeah! The 70s version in PC2 is my favourite. I really hoped to see it in AMS2, since I don't like the physics in PC2 that much. It would be also great if they make a 80s version of the track, since this era isn't represented in Sims right now.
     
  4. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there's a few very distinctive eras with Le Mans, pre-72 before the Porsche curves, 72-89 with Porsche curves and no chicanes and 90-onwards with the chicanes on the Mulsanne.

    I think it's very unlikely in AMS2, and even less likely with matching content (bar the odd Group C or GT1 machine) but you have inspired me to go watch some Le Mans footage from the mid-90s...
     
  5. Apex

    Apex Active Member

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    License issues aside I think it's a lot work if we crave the same level of fidelity. That track has so much detail in PC2 - for example only yesterday I noticed there's animated gendarmerie in the forest.

    Had a very nice 10 x time compression race (2 hours 25 minutes) and the sunset and sunrise still blow me away.
     
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  6. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    Are you saying that it requires some kind of licence to replicate non existent tracks like the 1809 version of Silverstone or the 1799 version of Long Beach?
    I just thought that it would cost licence to replicate existing tracks.:)
     
  7. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    The problem is probably the name not the layout,
    You will find close to real world tracks and car-models without the real logo or name in many games, that makes me think the name and logo are the easiest or most important to protect.
     
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  8. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Le Mans would only work if there's a proper multiclass + driverswap and some other stuff aka endurance-things. Otherwise it's just boring straight every time. :p
     
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  9. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    Fully agree with that.
    My personal oppinion is that the version(s) without the Mulsanne chicanes is so boring that most drivers in a 24H virtual race will fall asleep at some time.
    Some years ago I participated in the last (probably :() international GTP mod (NR2003) LeMans race arranged by a Brazilian league.
    Hehe it was not a 24H race but only a 2.4H race - and the layout was about what LeMans is today.
    So the 2 Mulsanne chicanes kept me awake eventhough the race time was about 4 oclock in the morning in Europe :D

    ByTheWay: I participated in the #3 Hippie Porsche 917:p

    startGrid21.jpg
     
  10. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    You’re asking the wrong question: the question is “could a lawyer interpret Reiza as trying to reproduce something that’s trademarked”.

    So the name and layout of the course, yes. But it’s a grey area, it comes down to a judge’s opinion on whether you’re attempting to portray something that’s patented. You probably could get away with a few layout tweaks of the 1960s circuit and not using the official circuit name (eg call it “Nord Tours”), but you’d likely need to not use any of the grandstands or pit buildings too, if you wanted to be more protected. And maybe not the signalling pits or other installations built by ACO. Probably also safer not to use any cars that ran in the real 24H race either (so ironically the Lotus 23 is perfect :p).

    I’m being a bit facetious there, but basically it’s not very black and white what you can or can’t do. It’s up to arguments of lawyers and opinions of judges, and the likelihood of action being taken is increased as you make your representation closer to the real thing.
     
  11. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    Yeah you are probably right about the closer a replica goes to the original trademarks and logos the closer COULD be a call from the courtroom.
    But when I read something about how extremely expensive it is to get some track licences I often ask myself - has anybody ever get sued?
    I mean one thing is to threaten people by getting sued - another is to actually do it.:)

    BeAware Im not talking about cars and replicas of these but solely about tracks.;)
     
  12. JASON CHAMBERLAIN

    JASON CHAMBERLAIN Member

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    I too would love LeMans with the AMS2 physics rather than the twitchy stuff in PC2.

    I'm curious - how do they get away with the "Azure Circuit?" As far as I can tell, that's a pretty decent facsimile of a certain grand prix track in a tiny country on the Mediterranean Sea.

    I wouldn't be shocked at all if the ACO sued someone though. They seem to be extremely diligent about maintaining their brand.
     
  13. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, we're very unlikely to ever know - it wouldn't ever be likely to go to court rather than be settled outside it, because it would be hugely expensive to actually argue it with a judge.

    Some random examples without sources:

    - Codemasters were apparently treading a fine line with Dirt Rally 1 being exact replicas of stages used in WRC and using nearly-WRC cars on them (DR1 had 'test' versions of WRC cars) - Dirt Rally 2 stages were less obviously WRC-only (with the exception of Argentina), but it also didn't have modern WRC cars.
    - SMS made several changes to their Suzuka version to make it less like the real thing during development of PC1; I think this was on legal advice
    - rFactor had unlicenced versions of Silverstone and Monza - in rF2, they had neither modern version, but did add an unlicenced historic Monza and a licenced Silverstone - this might be the closest example to the one you described
     
  14. Jebus

    Jebus The Lying Finn Reiza Backer

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    Well you answered your question yourself already, they got away with it because they called it Azure Circuit. It's the name Monaco, and propably Monaco GP too, that is trademarked not the track layout, which in Monaco's case is public roads anyways.
     
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  15. BrunoB

    BrunoB King of Raceroom FR-US

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    If it is that simple that its only the name of track and name of the race event that is trademarket then it should be pretty easy to replicate a lot of famous track layouts - without fearing the outcome of a potential court case.
    And conserning the existing LeMans layout then 95 percent of the track is also just normal roads.

    ByTheWay: I have to admit that my personal oppinion is also that it probably just is that simple - but not many sim studios want to take the risk and create such a track with another name and then sit back calculating that nothing will happen.:D
     
  16. F1Aussie

    F1Aussie Well-Known Member

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    And for lemans to work you need more than a 32 car grid.
     
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  17. Flo Renz

    Flo Renz New Member

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    For me the long straight, the kink and the breaking to mulsanne corner is the best part of the course. I really love going down the mulsanne straight by night with over 350 km/h. I also hate the Dunlop chicane in the modern layout.
     
  18. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    So you'd basically need all the people playing online + AI fill :)

    (j/k but i had to)
     
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  19. JASON CHAMBERLAIN

    JASON CHAMBERLAIN Member

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    I've got to think that there is more to it than that. On the other hand, you don't hear about cease and desist orders with all the mods in Assetto Corsa. I'm sure that any kind of off-license replica would require some changes. I doubt that you'd have the big Porsche sign before the curves or the big Dunlop arch, for example.

    Somehow SMS managed to include it and the Spirit of LeMans DLC was fabulous. Am I the only one who came home and drove the GT40 on the classic configuration after seeing Ford v Ferrari? I don't know what all goes into it, but I would think that if licensing wasn't an issue then they would just port the PC2 version into AMS2.

    Or perhaps Le Mans will be the surprise track DLC that's promised on the roadmap?

    Who knows? I'm ready for the Nordschleife in a couple of weeks though.
     
  20. Flo Renz

    Flo Renz New Member

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    I wouldn't mind fake billboards. Rf2 has a version of the track with fake advertisment. Maybe they port it in the future. The game is fairly young and I believe they will include much more content.
     
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