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Manual Transmission not needing clutch on modded cars

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Ayrton, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Ayrton

    Ayrton Member Reiza Backer

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    I've posted this before in other places, but it just dawned on me that I should go straight to the source and ask here. So my problem is that modded cars often don't require the clutch. Even with auto clutch/blip/lift disabled, they still act like they're semi-auto. I know I have my shifter and pedals set up correctly, the stock content like F-Vintage works great and grinds if I don't use the clutch. But with some mods, like a can am mod and the F1 1967 legends mod, I have it selected as full manual but it clearly has auto lift enabled. I've searched all throughout the mod files and can't find anything that would alter this. Is there some line in the mod's physics that overrides the need for clutch?

    Note: the Historix mod is probably the best example since so many people use it. It's a fantastic mod, but the cars always seem to have auto clutch enabled, which just kills the immersion.
     
  2. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    You're going to have to contact the makers of the mods to get that problem fixed.

    While we're on the subject, can you recommend any historic sports or pony car mods that have the fully-modeled transmission and tire flatspotting?
     
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  3. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    And, half the mods that do use clutch are poorly programmed and result in a clutch with a much too small take-up rate or have too weak a clutch "strength," etc. It takes work to program it all in an authentic manner (as Reiza does).
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    So in the can-am and F1 67 mod, if you keep the throttle floored and change gear, you'll hear the revs drop as if you let off the gas pedal or do the revs stay floored but with you able to change to the next gear? If it's the first, then auto-lift is happening, if it's the second then auto-lift isn't happening (even if you're able to change gear).

    P.S. I've raced a few different types of purpose built racecars (mostly open wheelers) and, once you learn them, almost never uses the clutch for upshifts. I could be wrong but I'm not so sure Can-Am and 67 drivers used thr clutch on upshifts especially at racing speed - they almost certainly used "dog-boxes." Usually all that's required is pre-loading the gear-stick for a second or two, then giving a quick & small throttle lift (let's say from 100% to 75%) which drops the revs, then add some more force on the shifter and the next gear should pop in. Some even do flat upshifts (ie. no lift at all) - a quick, small lift to drop revs for a split-second reduces shock-load though. At the most, if you wanted to use the clutch, you literally tapped it so quick and so short that it's like pressing the clutch pedal to something like 20% for a split-second (basically as fast as you pop the shifter from 1 gear or the other). Drivers would also do clutchless downshifts but it wasn't as common due to being both more risky and difficult. They would rev-match (ie. blip) the throttle while the car was in neutral.

    I would say as long as the car isn't auto-blipping and auto-lifting then I'd honestly just drive and enjoy those cars now even if the clutch pedal isn't required (besides from a stop, of course). You may not get a clutch/gear update in them anytime soon (if at all) and, even if you did, it may not necessarily make them more realistic and it could even make them less realistic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  5. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    It's the clutch activity at launch that is the main issue (where the wrong input values reveal themselves). Yes, you often rarely use the clutch otherwise, but even in a sequential it is often needed in and out of 1st as well as at launch.

    It's just bad modelling/programming because AMS is capable of realistic clutch behaviour. Why not use it properly? It's why we call it a sim.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Ya, I'm not defending them not implementing good clutch behaviour, all I'm saying is as long as there's no auto-blip and auto-lift, I would still drive and enjoy the cars rather than not driving cars you want to drive.

    P.S. The OP wasn't talking about launching cars but about changing gears while driving.
     
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  7. Ayrton

    Ayrton Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, the cars are definitely still drive-able and I enjoy them. But while you can certainly shift without clutch, the problem is really apparent when you're just coasting along, say at low rpms in 4th gear. I can just move the shifter to 3rd and it transitions smoothly, whereas that should cause a major grind.

    And to clarify whether it's lifting off or not, the mods ARE blipping when downshifting, even with autoblip turned off. That's really the main problem. Basically it's impossible to do an improper shift.
     
  8. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Yup, and even if it doesn't cause a grind (due to the non-implemented or poorly implemented clutch behaviour), it should at least cause an upset in the balance of the vehicle due to not blipping.

    Can you point me to the Can-Am mod? Is the F1 mod called F1 Racing Legends v2.0.3? I'm going to check to see if I can get a partial fix for you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  9. Ayrton

    Ayrton Member Reiza Backer

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    Here's the Can Am mod 1967 F1 Season (Part 1) - Latest Formula 1, Motorsport, and Sim Racing News. Note, I uploaded it did a basic conversion from GSCE to get it running in AMS and uploaded it with permission from the creators, so I know for a fact it hasn't seen any major work in the conversion. That was the original reason for this post, I was looking for direction on how to edit it to improve the transmission.
    The F1 67 mod is here 1967 F1 Season (Part 1) - Latest Formula 1, Motorsport, and Sim Racing News. I think it has a similar story, with it being a basic conversion that didn't implement any of the new features.
     
  10. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Thanks. Ahh darn, I downloaded the wrong mod. I downloaded this F1 Legends Racing - Latest Formula 1, Motorsport, and Sim Racing News

    OK. Downloading the other F1 mod now.
     
  11. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    OK. I just tried the F1 67 mod you pointed me to. There definitely is not auto-blip nor auto-lift. I tried all 3 of the shifting styles in the upgrades option and all 3 of them are the same: no auto-blip, no auto-lift. I just used the first car it had selected; some blue car called American racing or something? What car are you using? Maybe it's a specific car issue.

    I can always change gear without the clutch no matter what so the clutch part isn't working as you rightly mentioned but there's definitely no auto-lift and auto-blip happening. I was getting all loose and snappy during downshifts if I didn't blip, and revs shot-up very fast if I didn't lift.

    If you don't lift, you also get this very pronounced, long-lasting clutch-slip effect rather than the next gear slamming in quickly. I don't think that's supposed to happen and maybe it's part of the tranny/clutch part that's not working but this forces you even more to make sure to lift on upshifts so it's kind of cool in that respect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  12. Ayrton

    Ayrton Member Reiza Backer

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    I tried it again, and you're right the upshifting is definitely messy if you don't lift, but the downshifting is still smooth for me even if I just go down a gear without any lift off, clutch in, or blip. It seems to be auto-blipping. It's really just frustrating to not need the clutch at all on some of these mods.
     
  13. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Which exact car are you using? I definitely don't have auto-blip. The rear-end is gettin very unstable while downshifting during braking as the revs are initially severely mis-matched.
     

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