Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

Back in version 1.5.5.5 the AI would follow the player's draft. After just one update it has been removed and never re-added. Why ? I marked the part of the video where AI follows the player as they realistically should, it was awesome and i am sad it was never re-added because now it feels like your presence does not matter to the AI at all.

 

That's because you turned on the automatic formation lap. Otherwise, your tires would be blue for the first few laps. How could you overtake them?

 

Does anyone else have issues (strange behavior) during qualifying with Formula Reiza? Almost every time, most of the AIs return to the pits before completing their flying lap — they go back to the pits almost every two laps. I’m wondering if this could be caused by my XML file or not.

 

Good morning, the only problem I find with Automobilista 2 is the AI vs AI, the continuous attempt to pass each other in any sector, the stickiness that circulates between them, the lack of distance that exists when they turn fast corners as if the aerodynamic load did not exist, that the first never gains distance from the rest unless it moves away above the second, as the most important things. The rest is perfect, strategies, races, filters, categories, everything spectacular.
I don't lose hope that they can correct that before the career mode, because the engine is that of Project Car 2 and except for the issue that the first one never takes distance, the rest looks much better in AI vs AI.
I hope you take it as constructive criticism because that is the intention, and I know you can improve it because in Automobilista 1 all this was perfect, greetings.

 

The Kansai GP track has the following issues left to be fixed and the AIs will be in very good state:
They are slighty more grippy through "First Turn" and miles faster out of "Spoon Curve", where I mostly lose between 0,2-0,4 seconds

A reminder, the Kansai Classic version doesnt have these issues!

 

Posting here rather than the DLC feedback thread as any negative opinions draw too much angst over there. Admittedly, I now have less than 30 total hours spent with the new update, but first impressions of the offline AI have me feeling disappointed. I am still encountering the issue I started encountering back in the middle of the summer with Aston DLC where I am unable to match the AI in fuel efficiency (this really only applies to long races, though).

Just wrapped up a 3 hour Watkins Glen Short Inner Loop run with 15x time progression and 3x fuel use w/GT3 Gen2. Despite lapping faster than any of the AI opponents, they are killing me with fuel strategy. 48-car field and I ended up in third-to-last place as I needed 6 total stops (with Lean mix and LiCO) in the 720 EVO. The first 8 positions were all held by Astons, with each of them needing only a single pit. The rest of the field only had to stop 3 times. I did change my tires on my third stop, which def would have put me at a disadvantage to AI that didn't take rubber, but its devastating to feel like you run fast and still get lapped 4-6x. I am putting trust into a SimHub overlay for fuel calc, so maybe that is ruining my perceptions on fuel efficiency.

Second race was 90 minutes w/30x time boost (also at Watkins) w/M1 Procars and 48 in the field w/3x fuel burn. In this race I managed to just barely cut into the top 20 at the end, but the first 11 finishers all made it with zero pit stops for fuel or tires. I had to make 4 stops in total. I only finished as high up as I did because the AI cars have a death wish.

This brings me to my main issue with the new DLC/update. The AI is crazy. While it isn't every single lap, it would be fair to say that in the Procars, there was a small (and sometimes large) pileup at the inner loop chicane on 85% of all laps run. I generally try to be cautious and avoid trouble in this area (but I almost exclusively run from last position while offline for fun), but avoiding contact is borderline impossible once one car in the conga line starts the fishtail.

Even if I get lucky and leave track limits to avoid the wrecks, it's almost inevitable that I will be sideswiped by one of the fishtailers that will aggressively try to get back on the line with no regard for the position of the player's car. Many times, I can see the wreck coming 75-100 meters before it happens as you'll spot one car start to lose it and that car triggers the next until they form a school of fish. Every time, they basically stay on the line and just fish tail until they regain stability.

In the moment, my frustration boils over as this behavior effectively makes the AI car that is "making a mistake" 3 times its normal width on track and they never seem to lose any grip on the front tires. With humans screwing up, you can almost bet your life that they will end up in the grass/gravel/wall for a majority of the time so you can react or plan your path around them. With the fishtail AI, the wide ass they are given makes it really tough to take advantage of the mistakes they make as they aren't really penalized in the way player cars are + they are given the extra wide advantage for defense.

Admittedly, most of my play this weekend and today has been at the Road Atlanta DLC, where the margins are not as tight as other circuits so I can honestly say that I didn't much notice the Mad Max AI at first. Upon visits to Spa, Long Beach, Bathurst 83, and Oulton, the only thing I've found is twisted metal with any class. I only have about 70-80 hours of race time in between the Aston DLC update and this new DLC, but I simply never saw this kind of stuff from the AI in that time period. They had existing issues for sure (like wrecking themselves into walls on standing starts or committing suicide at Turn 1 at Daytona), but those seem to have been alleviated with the new update. I'm just not sure the changes as a whole have made for better racing (or at least for the nonsense offline racing I'm used to doing).

I've also entirely giving up multi-class racing with this new update as the new blue flag behavior only ensures that whatever AI cars in my class will willingly give up a 25-second+ advantage in order to slow up for a blue flag. Most of this I've only seen with 2005 DLC (as that is what I am playing the most the past 4 days), but I have spotted it using the Weathertech SportsCar preset at Sebring as well. Once that C60 shows up in the rearview of the first 2005 GT1, you can be sure that all the AI traffic in the slower class will lose a frustrating amount of time to the player.

For reference: all my griping and whining here was done with AI aggression set to Medium and MIstakes set to Normal. AI Level is 95 in all cases and stock setups were used at all times. (Final disclaimer: I use a gamepad like a loser)

 

Fuel Strategy Issues – Probably a Misunderstanding

I've raced at Monza, Imola, and Road Atlanta with 5x fuel consumption and 5x tire wear, and the AI performed excellently. Some pitted after 6 laps, some after 5, and a few even lasted 7 laps. I mixed three classes—LMDh, GT3, and GT4—and after several days of playing, I genuinely haven’t encountered the issues you described. The race results felt perfectly reasonable.

The root of your problem might be the extremely high time acceleration settings. Personally, I never adjust that. Also, it seems you increased fuel consumption without adjusting tire wear—that imbalance could be causing issues.

On another note, tires are just too durable. After half an hour of intense racing, wear was less than 20%. If this were real tire wear, you could complete a full WEC race without changing tires at all...

The one issue I do share with you is the ridiculous blue flag behavior. When a faster-class car approaches from far behind, my rival—who was previously just as fast as me—suddenly lifts off the throttle and lets me pass. Just like that, the intense battle is over. Seriously, so anticlimactic. That’s literally how I ended up winning. Until this gets fixed, I’m not touching multi-class races again.

For this kind of racing, I’ll stick to LMU—it’s simply fantastic.

 

By the way, I forgot to mention—the "AI mistake" option must be turned off. Their inexplicable slowdowns are really annoying. As for aggressiveness, it can be set to max. Do not use the tire wear multiplier, as it makes the AI's speed extremely unstable. The same goes for time scaling—it always causes weird bugs. Don’t be surprised: in LMU, if you set the fuel multiplier too high, the pit stops will turn into a chaotic mess. These multipliers are only meant for online multiplayer and are not AI-friendly. This applies to every game.

Additionally, for AI, a 95% skill level is generally not ideal, except on specific tracks like Imola. To make things more challenging, it should usually be set between 102% and 105%.

 

I never got fuel strategy issues to this level - if I had to guess, it seems the AI is not affected by the multipliers somehow. Try to do one long stint without any multipliers and see if you can match them.

Completely agree with your blue flag problem - it seems that, to improve the blue flag behavior of overtaking cars, instead of improving the AI's ability to overtake, Reiza simply made the lapped cars massively slower until it worked well enough for the top classes, seemingly ignoring the fact that there are people who like to drive in lower classes too.

Also agree on the AI mistakes thing, they simply come back into racing line ridiculously at the moment. They go from seemingly having no grip to infinite instantly, and, since they don't know how to dodge slow cars on the racing line, this can end up causing crashes and weird incidents. But, at least in my experience, it doesn't happen that frequently, and when it does, it rarely ruins a race.

In general, from what I tried out so far, since the last update the AI seems significantly better against the player, but worse against each other. The trains they form are way worse now than they have been for a very long time.

 

Just for visibility, as it has already been acknowledged, the lmp2 2005 seem to be too fast compared to the player. I usually run gt cars with abs at around 112-115, non abs prototypes at around 105-107. Here the lmp2's got me sweating even on 97 difficulty, because they seem to have excessive cornering speed. I catch them pretty easily in draft, like on Ullman straight at Sebring where they seem slow and rather unaffected by draft, but they pull more lateral g's when cornering. Though I didn't touch the setup, I tried the lmp1's on the same tracks and without practice would pull away easily.
In conclusion: they are fast on the straight only because of the seemingly higher cornering grip, that allows them to carry more speed through the corners. However they might need to be affected more by draft as for the player theirs seem to suck you in like a tractor beam. Weirdly enough it seems to be one of the most human like experiences to date, as there is not really a corner where you can too predictably overtake them (Sebring/Interlagos)

 

From my observations their logic is slow down, and after some time try another line to go around when it should be the other way around imo

 

I think the logic for rejoining the track or moving back to the racing line after a mistake needs some work.
A few times now I've seen a car fall off the track after locking up, only to get mega grip off the road and fly back onto the track, taking out another car or two in the process.
Same with when they find themselves off-line for whatever reason, and suddenly swerve massively to get back onto the racing line, even if there's another car next to them.

It's almost like they're magnetised to the racing line through corners, rather than allowing themselves to navigate corners off-line.

I don't know exactly how it works, but maybe something to do with widening AI corridors through corners when there are other cars around them?

 

Anyone else finding the AI very slow on Road Atlanta short coming out of the right hander onto the back straight, basically the bit where you go right rather than left on to the full circuit?

They are okayish through the first part of the corner but almost seem to lift off through the second part of it as you're coming onto the straight.

I've tested at 105% with the BMW GTR and the Milano/Porsche so far and it's the same scenario and it doesn't seem to be a traffic related issue they are just slow.

 

I haven't been able to drive since 1.6.8.6, but from my previous experience, yes, definitely an AI line to be revised there.

 

Generally 90% is fine for me. I've found that any attempt to go over that makes those two lead cars rockets and they hit hyperdrive and they're just gone. So far Formula High Tech Gen.2 is the worst. Even at 88% the two leaders are turning laps 5-6 seconds faster than anyone else. That class has to go down as low as 82% or 83% for me to be able to hang with them at least.

I've never attempted anything 100% or over. I think that's just trouble waiting to happen.

 

Why doesn't the AI not get penalties for cutting corners? If I get all four wheels over the white line, I get a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. I just did a half an hour race at Le Mans in a Audi LMP car following a car and he went through Le Tertre Rouge all four wheels over the outside white line every lap and never got a penalty. If I have to abide by the rules so should the Ai.

 

In a perfect world, I'd agree with you 100%. Sadly, this world isn't perfect and I'm old and deteriorating and use a gamepad for driving. The 95 Skill level is pretty much my ceiling on pace as I am not able to reliably lap any faster with zero force feedback or vibration information. I can usually sweat out some competitive lap times for leaderboard purposes from time to time, but the 95 Skill Level is as high as I can go when it comes to 2, 3, and 4-hour endurance races where I am required to maintain a pace over an extended period of time.

 

I had a really enjoyable race last night on old Spa with Group C, LMP1 2005 and GT1 2005 and I'm happy to report some welcome new AI behaviour. I've been trying the high aggression level but find too many problems for my liking so this is done with the middle aggression setting, 95% skill level and 3x mistakes. All comments below apply to the use of these AI parameters only.
Clumping in groups still happens here and there but much much less and they do not just stay in a clump as before and will go back to nose to tail providing opportunities to pass. They also do not run 1mm gaps nose to tail anymore either. there is still hesitancy in passing slower classes but it has improved greatly. One characteristic I find really annoying with the AI has been the constant snapping at heels behaviour at corner entry, with the lower aggression setting they seemed to back off a bit more and not try to push a tiny overlap into a turn as before. So, I once this had become clear I could focus more ahead and stress less about behind not taking me out.
I'm running on a 40 inch 4k flat screen and visually it is incredibly stunning and beautiful, every time I'm taken aback by how gorgeous it looks and with TAA set at 200 sharpening seems to bring out the best without any fuzziness I can see. this is with an RTX5080. And for me the FFB is simply divine which lets me 'play'.

 

Just to follow up here and also echo a few other comments - I was quite pleased that this behavior seemed to be gone in 1.6.8.5, but in 1.6.8.6 it's back? Has it been confirmed that this extreme slowing down is intended or not? Either way, a few things to note:
- this should be completely disabled if the car selection is set to multiclass, if at all it should only apply to a car being lapped by the same class and lifting slightly on the straight. slightly.
- cars should never slow down in corners for a blue flag, even if they're being lapped by the same class. this simply results in cars being rear ended
Really hope to see this addressed as it makes multiclass unplayable unless you're in the fastest class

 

It's been a while since the update now and the AI improvements are impressive.

There's still a slight issue in multiplayer with AI where they're a little too aggressive under braking and want to ride too close to the car in front leading to them bumping the non-host player, but it's still a good experience overall. Also had a few instances in multi-class where the faster car will occasionally brake when overtaking the slower car for no reason.

Other than that, just did 2 hours of Daytona and was immersed from start to finish, some weirdness in the chicane near the final straight but they manage much better than before. (No pile-ups like I used to see reported on that track.)