Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

While it feels like the next set of F1 cars will be released someday, I have major concerns with the AIs for them. And sadly, right now the worst car I have experience with is the "Formula V10 Gen2"
I am not too sure if I am the only feeling this: The AIs feel much more harder and difficulty to race with! It feels like pacewise they always are on skill level 115+, they are far superior and I can't at times keep up with them even on difficulties that aren't generally a problem. Things like this don't happen with the Formula "Edge, Classic, Hi-tech and Retro" where they work better!

I gave a try at Silverstone ´01 with the V10 Gen2 with skill level 106. Couldn't do better in qualifying than P3 and during race I couldn't do anything better no matter what I tried with the setup. Tried switching to the Formula Edge and there were far fewer issues with the exception of their pace through Becketts complex, which is more a circuit issue rather than the pace of the car itself.
This is heartbreaking since the good old V10s are the best sounding engines!

 

Don't be disheartened AI doesn't necessarily scale identically between classes, and I think it actually scales more steeply as you go to harder classes. For example, I'm competitive at 105 in F-Classic 4 Model 2. But I'm competitive at 115-120 in GT5. And there is variance between tracks as well - e.g., for the first Formula 3 race at Interlagos I ran at 105, but for Velo Citta I had to drop to 100. In Formula Hybrid 2 I am 6 seconds off the pace (that's also a lack of talent) compared to 1.1 seconds at 1991 Interlagos in F-Classic 4.

I always use the Practice session in a championship to determine the pace of the track/class combination, and compare it to my own time trial records and the world records. A perfect example - in Project Cars 2, the Clio Cup at Knockhill had AI times faster at 100 difficulty than the TT world record, and I believe I was around 1.2s off the pace of the record at that time.

 

Hi, I have a question about the AI. I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, as I don't use the forum much.

I've noticed, perhaps since the last two or three updates (maybe more, or maybe it's always been there and I just hadn't noticed), that every time I'm about to go on a fast lap for qualifying and I pass right at the pit exit, another car is coming out or has just come out, naturally slow or at an intermediate speed, and I catch up to it very quickly. And obviously, it doesn't respect the blue flag; in fact, I don't even remember seeing them! They don't respect the pit lane lights either!

I understand that this might be a way for the AI to make things more difficult, and that it's something that can happen in real life and has happened!, but the fact that it always happens this way is no longer fun.

It's very annoying because in real life, especially in qualifying, fast laps are generally respected. I understand that unintentional incidents happen, but what I'm describing happens almost every time!

This has already happened to me in Group C GT1 and in several Formula cars. I've tried not to teleport to the pits to avoid timing discrepancies (since I assume that's what causes them).

I'm currently playing:
F1 Classic Gen 4 Custom Championship
AI Level: 120 (same for levels between 110 and 119)
Aggression: Medium (same for Low or High)
Allowed Rules:
Yellow flag on the entire track
Pit speed limit: 80 km/h
Allowed damage (same regardless of scale)
Realistic assists
Progressive track
Mod: [AMS2] F1 1991 Season 2.13 (I even modified the blue flag behavior to see if there was any change, and there wasn't)

Is anyone else experiencing this?

 

@mustang_304 I think you're on the money there. And I don't think it's just that they don't stay off the racing line when they're on an outlap, I'm convinced that they were blocking me at Interlagos 1991 when I was on a flying lap and I'd caught up to them. This quite often would happen on the entry to Turn 6 (the fast right-hander) where they seem to hang out in the middle of the road and move whichever direction you try to overtake on. I also in the past have watched them exit the pit at Campo Grande and move directly in front of other cars onto the racing line heading into the first corner.

So I do think that outlap/in-lap/slow lap behaviour still needs a bit of work to be considered realistic.

 

Hi, thanks for replying. I'm currently at Interlagos 91, but I've also noticed it at Monza, Imola (Spain), and Silverstone. The same thing happens: I'm about to start a flying lap, I cross the finish line, and right at that moment someone is leaving the pits. It happens quite frequently; I'd say about one out of every three laps, being conservative.
I don't have any videos right now because I'm using virtual reality and I'm having stuttering issues when recording with AMD Adrenalin, which is annoying. However, knowing that it's happened to someone else makes me think it's quite common.

It's happened to me with Group C cars, Gen 3 Hybrid Formula 1 cars, Classic Formula 1 cars, and GT1 cars. I don't know if it happens with other types of cars.

 

It happens very frequently indeed. It is almost as if the AI is at the end of the pit lane waiting you to screw your fast lap.

 

Are the AI cars magnetic? They hit me on the back and stick on me and even on the side and before the cicane on the nurnbergring at the same spot over and over again, the car in front of me when I on the back with overtaking, suddely switching from left to the right and back.

 

Thanks, I turned off the pit animations, and for now, it looks like the problem is fixed; I'll try it again in a long race to see how it performs.

 

General issues with AI which are still there like in early days of the game:

- AI refuses to step back when being overtaken on the inside, they just try to force their way through on the outside of corners, ramming player.
- Their cars are heavy as tanks compared to the one of the player.
- After contact, player has damage, whilst AI can go on as if nothing ever happened.
- When player is already in front, they want to drive through him, going for the rear tyres.
- They still cut corners like crazy in order to avoid being overtaken.
- On their out-and inlap in qualifying, they do not get out of the way of fast cars, destroying other driver's laptimes and building trains.
- There are no penalties for the AI, they are allowed to drive like brainless maniacs.
- AI have huge problems with overtaking each others, because they do not go for the gap but for the rear of car in front.

All those issues have been reported over and over again through the years.

 

The two points about "AI overtaken but does not step back" and "the AI wants to drive through the player" sounds to me like stuff that only happens when the player does not respect the AI on the track, because those two things have never ever happened to me when i respected them and gave them proper room.

AI cars either having zero damage or DNF levels of damage is annoying indeed, same with them not being affected by it.

Many of the other mentioned issues i already shown in multiple videos but unfortunately the problems still persist, especially how they need to be 125% clear before attempting an overtake and instead waste time behind each other.

 

Thanks for your answer!
But sorry, Marius. If you still need videos to be aware of such major issues with the AI 6 years after release, I don't know what to say.
It has also nothing to do with aggression, they behave like that even at low aggression.

When you have overtaken the AI on the inside before a corner, they will try to go side by side through the curve, and even when you are in front, they pretend on their line coming from the back. It is the AI that should show respect when driving behind, instead of just going for the cars in front or, let's say trying to go through the car in front.

Same is with this annoying corner cutting by the AI. Instead of respecting fast car, they just cut the curve and then ram player's vehicle.

 

The corner cutting and not getting any penalties is indeed terrible.
But can you tell me what car, track, aggression settings and AI difficulty did you use ? Because again, i have never experienced that issue so want to test if it would happen if i tried the same what you drove.

 

Any open wheeler, any track with tight corners or chicanes, any settings.

 

Why should a car back down from their line if another car goes for the inside corner? Nobody has to step back, it's a race and not a fun trackday among friends. I don't understand how there can be contact unless you on the inside decide to go for the outside before you have completed the pass.

 

I did tests with Formula Vintage, Retro, Classic and Hybrid . And the results were all the same - AI gives me space, never drove through me, is patient and yields if they think they cannot make it through the corner ahead of me, in fact the AI is giving me a lot more space than i deserve on multiple occasions.

So i think it is safe to assume you are likely just not respecting the AI on the track. Please record a video how you drive around the AI if you think that there are issues with them ramming you because from the tests i done today it never happened to me.

 

The other factor that affects the AI behaviour significantly is the strength setting. If set too high (the AI are faster than the player), there will be many problems with AI not able to react quickly enough when the player brakes "too early" or is generally not driving at a high enough overall quality and consistency level (necessary to match the AI's lap times lap after lap). Conversely, if the strength is set too low, the player will be running up the rear end of the AI when braking or when exiting corners. It takes some patience to figure-out what the appropriate level is, and, it varies a bit from one series to another (although calibration to minimize that is always ongoing.)

 

What I typically do is I try to get the difficulty level set (during practice and qualy) that I'm competitive in the top 5. You tend to be mostly on pace with the faster AI drivers then, and you also learn where they might brake earlier or later without too much trouble. I've been racing F Classic Gen4 and F3 lately and had some great races because I got the difficulty right. If you're consistently faster than the AI by more than 0.5-1s per lap you're definitely going to run into issues, and vice-versa if the difficulty is set so you're in the bottom 10, you have to respect that there are going to be faster drivers on top of you a lot.

 

Take Imola 2001:
When you do an overtake before the chicanes, they will cut corners and often ram you off track afterwards.

And if a car in front changes the line, you can not go through it in real life, because your race would be over quite soon because of the damage.
So yes, drivers gotta react differently than the AI in AMS 2.