Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

I spent 2 hours testing several tracks and watching the accident replays. I am quite certain that every single incident was caused by collisions between AI cars during overtaking and defending. Turning the aggressiveness setting down to "Low" helps reduce these accidents, but after 4–5 laps, the same kinds of incidents still inevitably keep occurring(gt3 gt4 gte gt1 F3…）, affecting the race progress. This really disrupts the race rhythm, and it has been reported for a long time without improvement. I hope this can be addressed as soon as possible.The car classes that don't have this issue, such as prototype cars, won't experience these accidents even with the aggressiveness set to max.

 

I think he's asking you to use OBS or something like that to record the accidents so it might be easier to find the cause. "AI cars" is the blame rather than a "cause" that can be looked at.

 

Here's another race at Silverstone on difficulty level 120 with the McLaren MP4/6. It was a pretty close race against the AI—it was really entertaining. The AI now tries to pass you as soon as it can

 

Hi, I wanted to report a bug that appeared with the latest update. I ran a race at Historic Kyalami with Group C and the AI, but I started experiencing stuttering whenever I passed opponents or when several cars bunched up in a turn—which isn’t normal; in this simulator, it always runs smoothly and stably. On top of that, the Group C labels appear blank. So I tested it with GT3 Generation 2, and the stuttering didn’t happen on the same Kyalami track, and the labels did appear. I ran another test at Monza with Group C, and the stuttering came back when I passed an opponent, and again the labels were empty; it seems like a bug with Group C or something like that.

 

1991 Monza Race with the McLaren MP4/6 IA 120 Skill
The AI now overtakes like a dream It's gone from not almost overtaking to overtaking everywhere
I had to defend myself as best I could, and on one occasion I couldn't give the AI any room.

 

I just tested it and I completely agree...

The AI in NASCAR at Daytona is completely broken. Even set to 100%, it's 5 seconds slower. Increasing the AI performance doesn't help; the player is always much faster.

P.S.: I haven't tested it on other oval tracks.

If this persists, the class will become completely useless. I hope Reiza finds a solution soon, please! @Renato Simioni

 

When AI go off track because of a driving mistake, they still reenter by ignoring traffic.

 

First I'd like to say that i really love your Game and your new F1 car and my favorite of all... Stock Car USA!

Now, we have a problem with the Stock car AI... on Daytona per example you can run at 120 ai difficulty and at half power or lowest fuel consumption you can and still qualify at first place... ai cars doesn't goes full throttle! for some reason not lots of people addressed that issues but its really bad. we can go like 10 second faster than ai at full difficulty!!!

Stock USA GEN 1 2 3 Broken :: Automobilista 2 General Discussions

anyway thanks for your works and your game.

 

As I said I didn't mean any personal attack or disrespect.

But lets say, in sim racing I've seen tons of people complain about sliding tires or some basic thing like default setups or tire grip, but then they aren't even able to drive the car close to the limit, or fast enough to even properly warmup the tires, ofc they're going to complain about the things they do not understand.

When you talk about hotlaping vs racing you're wrong assuming things about me again.

In LFM, when it was highly active, I was 77% podium rate with 160 starts and 90+ wins. I've won more than 50% of my races on a competitive online elo ranked platform.

And if you had read, I was talking about my experience throughout some previous updates. I used to race more offline than online because I didn't want to make a fool of myself crashing online. After developing some awareness vs the AI I became more confident to race online.
(although some ppl online don't do this and crash into drivers every other race)

In patch v1.5 it was really easy to beat 120% AI.

Here I never edited and posted the full race from this lap, even though this take was from the only one where I survived. Try 120% High Aggression with GT1 at Spa 93.

But once again as I've also stated, Reiza has updated AMS2 further and probably the AI is now more manageable than before, as we're approaching v1.7 and we've gotten hints at the career mode.

Another thing I post mostly hotlaps or race highlights because just putting down 40m races ends up becoming a bit boring, unless it's from a track camera and someone is narrating like on TV.

And finally here is my racecraft highlights from a league race where I've won the R1, in R2 we get random grid and there are drivers of all skill levels and I need to safely account and overtake. This wasn't even our cleanest race, it was one of the first races from the league I think. But fun video.

But usually I tend to be more respectful around AIs due to a certain "x" factor that the AIs behave sometimes in their own unique ways, and once you learn the "tricks" to "game" the Ai, and start finding some pattern of predictable behaviour, once that happens the race against AI starts to feel unfair if I know I can do something, that in turn will make the AI react a certain way, and then I can take advantage of it... if I can make it happen consistently.

But that's part of the game. I'm just spoiled with platforms and racing leagues and a huge increase in online activity in AMS2 and there are many fast, good and clean drivers online as well.

Once again, I've been quite critical of the AI in the past but I think there have been massive improvements as I stated on my previous post and I think for the most part, the "AI mistakes" and "Ai aggression" sliders have a huge impact, as well as the "Wet skill" slider, that didn't exist before I created that 40m race video at Watkins glen.

And TBH, I 100% believe Reiza listens to it's players, and due to that they gave me the tools to improve my AI racing. If I find the time I would race the AI again.

But right now there are so many leagues, racing platforms, lobbies, with exciting cars and tracks, and many nice drivers sometimes even just random lobbies that I find nice races almost every day. And I really love to see AMS2 multiplayer grow alongside it's single player.

And on a side note, I don't think hours mean that much but I've got also more than 2k hours on ACs and 1500hours in AMS2. Yet in 15hours of LMU I've nearly won almost every online race I did there, ofc I'm new there in the low tier lobbies and I bring a lot of previous experience.

Once again I find it very hard to criticize AMS2 AI without some objectivity and all I shared with you were past observations from previous years. If someone else was having a similar experience I would find it totally believable and not dismiss that other guy right away.

Keep also in mind, that in faster and faster cars, smaller differences in inputs translate into bigger differences in track position and distances. Brake checking on a fast F1 car requires the AI to have an insurmountable faster reaction than in a GT4 by a few orders of magnitude.
(Same with players, hence why it's harder to find good racing on the fastest cars, player errors become more common as the cars become faster and harder to actually drive how they're meant to be driven)

But once again I'm not here just to disagree with you, but to add more insight and depth and info to the same topic of conversation and shed a varied perspective.

And regardless of not being the quickest I still enjoy most drivers when racing online, as long as they're clean, and I've suggested in leagues with big driver skill gaps to use slower cars and default setups to remove the advantages from the faster drivers.
A driver than is 2s or 3s faster in a GT3 car can be only 1s faster in a GT4 for example, and if some ppl don't know how to tweak setups, leaving default setups also removes that advantage and equalizes the playing field.
But now I remember, I've never used default setups vs the AI.

Regarding this topic, idk if reiza have default safe setups that are unique to every track or when you pick a car, it's default setup works for all tracks and temps.

But what I've noticed with some cars (specially more basic ones) is that sometimes there are people running some of the fastest laps in the world with the default setups (but TimeTrial also has ideal track conditions).

What can make default setups tricky is very cold or hot tracks, where you can't adjust brake ducts and tyre cambers and pressures to the track conditions.
I've been racing in a Brazilian league with some friends and I've created a tyre setup video aimed at them just because of how important I think proper Pressure, Brake Duct, Camber and Toe are to keeping the tires in their ideal operating window.

And I think AMS2 setups do a phenomenal job at exploring that side of motorsports, unlike some games where there is a set "ideal" tire pressure setup value, or camber value. In AMS2 there no "magic values". Everything is dynamic, track and weather conditions dependant, just like in real life. And that makes every setup really good for it's own operating window.

But the best setups in the world on the wrong conditions will feel nearly undriveable, and that is expected, it's just pure physics from tire contact patch and reaction to temperatures and friction.

Even then I'm sometimes surprised how close you can be to the quickest laptimes on some of the default setups, but ofc mostly on the most "famous" or most used cars specially for ppl who quickly jump online on fixed setup GT3g2 or something like that.

But at least the AMS2 cars are "compliant" or "tameable". In my experience, in other older games (Like AC1) with bogus default setups that are totally bonkers, in such games there are cars that are barely driveable in a straight line, the car will want to spin as soon as you touch the brakes etc.
ACC started the trend of "safe defaults" and there the defaults felt insanely understeer and "too stable" like the cars didn't want to rotate at all. In comparison I've found (on the ones that I've driven) AMS2 setups to be amongst the most useful for people who just want to jump in and drive. I even enjoy many fixed setup races regardless of my experience and advantage tweaking setups.

But I haven't tried all the cars and specially not on default as even before I drive most cars, if the setup is open on the lobby I start tweaking it from memory and experience. Tweaking setups and testing 3 to 4 laps with every tweak gave me hours and hours of fun in AMS2.

 

I tested it on other ovals and unfortunately the problem isn't just with Daytona; the AI NASCAR cars don't seem to reach full speed, making the race very unbalanced. The Formula USA cars seem to be okay. It's really sad because oval racing was a great addition to AMS 2. I hope they get attention to fix this bug and optimize the AI.

 

I've raced against the McLaren MP4/6 in several races and now against the Renault R25, and I've noticed that at a skill level of 120, the AI already knows how to pass and does so as soon as it can—which is great—but I've seen that sometimes the AI ends up pushing me off the track, as happened in this video I'm sending now, where it didn't respect my position on the track. I heard Renato talk about the AI’s fear of curbs, and I imagine there are other track elements that make it behave as expected. I think that when it comes to passing, the AI isn’t afraid at all now, which is why it starts passing even in areas where I, for example, wouldn’t even attempt to pass... I say this with all due humility: I think the AI is just a tiny bit too aggressive when it comes to passing at 120. I say this because the AI has already ruined several races for me by passing me, crashing into me, and forcing me to retire from the race because of it. If I had to choose right now, I’d stick with the current AI, which overtakes without any problems, but of course, you have to be careful when taking a turn so the AI doesn’t cut into the turn to overtake and end up running you off the track. I’m just sharing this experience so it’s brought to your attention and everything can be improved to a level of excellence—not to mention that I’m truly grateful for all the work you put into this wonderful simulator

P.S. The AI is great now, at least in my case and in my races. I'm just mentioning this so it can be taken into account and the AI's aggressiveness when passing can be adjusted to prevent any mishaps during AI overtakes.

Edit :

If you turn the aggression setting down, it fixes the problem, but of course, aggression is one thing, and it’s another when the car doesn’t stay in its lane on the track—you can’t just disappear off the track all of a sudden

 

Has it ever been stated what actually changes when you move the AI difficulty up?

We know the AI is running a more limited physics model than the player car, but what improves with the AI driver when you go from 100-110 for example? Are they two tenths quicker on the accelerator on some corners, all corners, a tenth later on the brakes?

Is the AI value a linear change or on a curve? For example is going from 90-100 a bigger relative increase than moving from 105-115?

The baseline AI difficulty can only really be judged against the default setups as it has to be relative to something consistent for everyone.

I'm not the fastest driver. I run default setups apart from fuel and the occasional ARB and downforce change and generally have the AI between 104 and 108.

I usually have a decent enough race as far as where I am in the field as I'll be aiming for a top 5 or podium finish.

If I'm leading after the first couple of laps I'll quit and up the difficulty. It seems pointless leading a field of AI for the majority of the race unless you feel like they are going to get back pass to you.

I know that I can make more changes to the default setups and give myself a bigger advantage over the AI, but I don't because I really want my car to have a relatively similar performance to a top 10 AI car. I want to win through race craft not through tweaks in the pits.

My Issue with the AI remains them running too close together in packs/clusters. It's not as bad as it was but in real racing you rarely have the top four cars running within a couple of seconds for 10+ laps. Sometimes the leader will get away but often that is a result of one of the cluster of AI cars having a moment and slowing them down.

The AI probably needs a "take a breath parameter", to back off and try again, perhaps give the car ahead a chance to make a slight breakaway as they aren't in defence mode constantly.

Anyway just my thoughts.

 

Yes, in the text that i think nobody reads:

This stuff was discussed recently here, recommend giving it a check and sharing your thoughts there.
AI too hesitant vs AI

 

The more I play this game, the more I catch myself
a) imitating AI racing lines and
b) taking wide lines around corners (totally giving up any reasonable race line)
for fear of getting rear ended or dive bombed

It has zero to do with racing and is not very enjoyable. I'm not venting, I'm trying to bring it to the attention of the devs, and I pray they can fix it. If this behaviour persists then - at least for me - it's a dead game.

AI at 95
Medium Aggression
No custom AI file (only livery)

 

The aggression settings have migrated as the AI have been improved over the last many updates. I believe that Maximum can only be used for slower and stronger vehicles. Modern and fragile open-wheelers will not survive, so probably Medium is the appropriate setting for them. I just leave mine on Medium for all series and have not encountered AI that are too shy if the Strength setting is appropriately close to my own times.

 

Which of the cars is even you ? I really cannot tell, the Ferrari ? Also i played a LOT of races against the AI and regardless of my settings i was never ever rear-ended, not even once. I will test that combo myself.

 

I would guess it is the Ferrari. The problem I personally see in those videos regarding the AI is that it tries to find an overtaking spot on the player where there isn't any, forcing themselves to cut as much track as possible to the inside (and while it is not happening on those clips, I've seen them cut to the grass for this), and then track out, hitting the player's inside rear and tipping it into a spin that they get away with minimal loss of time and no damage.

Having said that, seeing the Jordan easily sail by on the outside at the first clip tells me that the player is braking too much for the level of AI he's racing against, and that will always cause trouble because they will do something crazy if you send them the wrong signals. And braking too much for the strength level you are racing against is definitely a wrong signal that opens spaces for overtakes that should not be taking place.

A key thing for enjoying offline racing on AMS2 is to be consistent with your driving technique and pace, and find the optimal skill level when you can race against them. And for pushing yourself into doing better, choose one that will place you between mid and back of the pack (unless you are very fast and have to run 120 all the time that is). That will make you look into everything that you are doing wrong, improve the setup, etc. Sorting those things out brings better racing against AI as a by-product in my experience, while also getting the satisfaction of improving your results.

 

I had the same problem on Sebring.

97 difficulty and medium for agressivity.

But i think it's because I braked way too early here and I was going very slowly...
It's worth noting that he shoved me as if I were a bag of chips

Sorry about my english.

 

I do wonder if Riza are fighting a loosing battle here as you can't please everyone. If you want believable AI then you need to let them make mistakes which will mean that sometimes they will take out humans while racing, or the AI will never touch a human car, which lets people push the AI around and make stupid moves knowing the AI will get out of the way.
I do a lot of endurance races, and I'm loving the AI, though I did have an interesting race the other day at Le Mans. 1 hour to go of a 3 hour race and light rain hits, first sector is completely soaked, but the rest of the track is dry. I think I was the only one to use wets. I was making up about 12s in sector one then loosing 10s on the rest of the track.
It ended up being a nail bitting race, with me only dropping out of the top 3 due to having to splash and dash to finish the last lap and ended up 6th.