Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

Sorry but you're wrong on this one. Go test it yourself. Aggression High. I have reproduced it several times. I've provided steps to reproduce and a video that shows the AI tendency to dive into the corner rather than stay on an outside line like it should. I don't expect it to back off. I expect it to race hard staying on an outside line rather than punting me off the track. On Medium it manages to stop at the last moment. On High it rams me off the track.

If it was reversed where I was on the outside, AI on the inside, AI is ahead going into the corner, I stay on the racing line (rather than an outside line) and ram the AI off the track, you would be saying it was my fault.

 

Nope, just asking for a video that actually shows what you are describing. We already have many reports of this using only words.

And, we know that (all WIP) Medium Aggression is the default with no need to use anything higher than that unless we observe behaviour from the AI that is too timid. I know it shouldn't be that way, and every option in the game should work perfectly, but with all the major changes to AI recently, I think it's safer to stick to default settings unless proven they are unsuitable. Once they actually work properly, there might be some hope that the further ends of the range will, too.

 

As Half joking, half serious, My friends call aggression level max is the MAX verstappen. Ai fights with no mercy like champ. I like it

 

Version: 1.6.9.91
Track & Layout Used: All (but it seems tighter = worse)
Car Used: All cars
Applicable Settings: Dry (only tested in dry, but I guess it's the same in different weather).
Report:

• AI cars crash into the rear ends of other cars in turns
• AI cars take overly wide lines
• AI cars ignore other cars
  Steps to reproduce: two different ways:

1. Drive any track with slightly stronger AI long enough (so that you qualify at around P5-P10) and/or brake just a tad earlier while being closely followed by AI
2. Load a multigrid session with a slower car and just watch the AI do it to themselves

Settings: AI-Aggression: Medium, AI-Mistakes: Standard. AI-Skill: 95. Track: Interlagos 1991.

I’ll make this a little more anecdotal to provide some context, as I think that highlights my point better.
I had just come home from a business trip, tired but hyped to load up AMS2 and do a bit of racing. I browsed through some add-ons, wanting to treat myself after the hard weekend I’d just put behind me. I was about to pull the trigger on an LMP add-on, but decided - for now - to jump into an old Formula car, leave the LMP for another day, and go into full race mode instead. Triple-screen setup, racing seat, H-pattern shifter, custom-built dashboard, Moza wheelbase with a small ’80s-style Formula steering wheel. For me it's the real deal. I was totally feeling it. And, did I mention I was hyped?
I chose Formula Classic Gen 2, the Model 2 car. No custom AI, no liveries - everything stock. I loaded up Interlagos and ran the default setup apart from tire choice and fuel load.
I climbed into my racing seat, completed the qualifying session, and qualified fourth. I messed up the start a couple of times because the AI was slow into T1 and braked much earlier than I expected. No problem. I restarted about three times and adjusted to the AI’s braking point.
Then I got a good start - I think I came out in P3 - and began fighting for every fraction of a second, trying to catch P1.

It was an awesome race, lap after lap after lap. I was sweating like crazy and concentrating as if there were no tomorrow. I managed to claim P2 and pass “Silva” (Senna). A couple of laps later, he took the position back into T1 - but only for a few seconds, because I pulled a switcheroo on him through the S do Senna.
Sweet pass. I loved it.
It was a constant battle. P1 never really pulled away, and I could never quite shake P3 behind me. I was thrilled. Exhilarated.
And then, somewhere in the middle of this sweaty, totally absorbing race, with my concentration at its absolute limit, this happened.

I’m posting this here because this is a bug. This is not a matter of preference or user error. This is the AI clearly taking out a human player.
They do it to other AI cars as well, but those cars often get away with it more easily because they seem to be a little more on rails. They immediately countersteer and also appear to have a greater maximum steering angle.

I cannot stress enough how much these incidents ruin the racing experience. I hate having to take another hiatus from AMS2 and wait for this to be fixed, but it isn’t worth playing like this.

As a side note, this obviously doesn’t happen when the player consistently exceeds the AI’s race pace. But when trying to have a close, evenly matched race, it seems to happen eventually in almost every race. Sometimes it takes ten laps for something like this to occur, but that doesn’t really help when I’m trying to replicate a realistic racing experience, including a realistic race distance.

Unfortunately, there are always those who claim that incidents like these are the defender’s fault and think, “Well, you were a little too slow, and he tried to get a run on you,” or, “You left the gap - that’s on you.” No wonder online racing is in such an abysmal state. It’s a bit pitiful that some have zero knowledge but 100 percent opinion. For those - and I say this without judgment or offense - who have failed to educate themselves about racing regulations and guidelines, here is a direct quote from the FIA:

A. Overtaking on the INSIDE of a corner
To be entitled to be given room when overtaking on the INSIDE, the overtaking car must:

i) Have its front axle AT LEAST ALONGSIDE THE MIRROR of the other car PRIOR TO AND AT THE APEX
ii) Be driven in a fully controlled manner particularly from entry to apex and not have “dived in”.
iii) In the Stewards’ estimation, have taken a reasonable racing line and been able to complete the move whilst remaining within track limits.​

(Quoted from FIA Driving Standards Guidelines, 26 February 2026, page 1)

In many AI incidents such as this one, we see none of i), ii), or iii) being fulfilled, even though they ALL must apply.

The 2022 FIA F1 Driving Standards Guidelines defined a “significant portion” as having the front tyres alongside by the apex. The 2024 FIA Drivers Commission Guideline specified “front axle alongside ‘mirror/middle’ at apex.”

Furthermore, the SCCA writes:

Overtaking car must present itself into the lead car’s peripheral vision before turn-in; for closed-wheel cars, roughly front end to A-pillar/windshield.
​

NASA:

Front wheel next to the other driver.
​

IMSA:

“Where two Cars are reasonably alongside each other, each must permit the other racing room.”
​

INDYCAR:

“The primary responsibility for avoiding contact with a Competitor resides with the overtaking Competitor and the secondary responsibility resides with the Competitor(s) being overtaken.”
​

And, just for good measure, MotorSport New Zealand:

“To be entitled to racing room on the inside of a corner, the overtaking car must have its front axle AT LEAST ALONGSIDE the mirrors/middle section of the other car at the apex of the corner.”
​

You see where I’m going with this. In all fairness, I think it’s necessary - to some extent - to get accustomed to the AI’s behaviour. I wish this weren’t the case, but a little of that is okay, such as learning the AI’s sometimes odd braking behaviour. However, I don’t think the fear of being dive-bombed and unfairly taken out on a regular basis should be part of any racing sim that tries to emulate real circuit racing.

This video is from another day and shows a very similar incident. You can actually see the first “assassination” attempt in the corner immediately before the final incident. This was at Donington:

And one more thing:

This footage is from previous sessions. As you can see, it is mostly AI versus AI. It highlights the following issues:

• AI cars think there is room where there is none, causing them to leave the track or attempt impossible moves
• AI cars cut corners
• AI cars ignore nearby cars

 

Much as I agree that this is the AIs fault if we want realistic AI then this will happen sometimes.
Maybe it is happening too often at the moment but if you had been racing a human that hard for many laps with no defending, I would have expected this to have happened much earlier.
I'd be interested to know what the response would be if you were to post the first and second clips on sim racing stewards without mentioning that it was against AI.

 

I'm also a little surprised to see so much criticism of the AI's behavior. Basically, the AI behaves more exemplary than many people do in public multiplayer. Sure, it sometimes tries to exploit gaps that aren't really gaps, but if you maintain a solid defensive line, you shouldn't run into any major problems.

 

Well since this thread gets more exposure, I will repost this issue that I have reported on the beta thread a couple of times, but maybe it got buried somewhere unseen. The HitechG1 Model 2 "Williams" always loses control on Maggots and Beckett when running with high fuel.

Settings


Video

 

Does that mean on a per class basis or can't adjust it at all?

For example, I was about to report the final righthand kink at Kyalami. The different classes all take the same line, and don't use the full width of the circuit on corner exit, which looks and feels weird

see from 4.00 for the real racing line:

 

Version: 1.6.9.9
Track & Layout Used: Imola 88
Car used: Any Formula car

Report: In training/qualifying, AI on fast lap still do not manage to overtake slow ones on their inlap in the long full throttle passage form last corner up to Tosa. They just ram car in front.

 

First video...perhaps it might look different from different angles or perspectives, but how is this anything more complicated than the AI was on the racing line, racing at pace, and the car in front prematurely chopped in front of them from off the racing line? The AI car even tries to take a tighter line by going off the track to avoid. Had that upset the balance of the AI car, or reduced its braking capability and it then speared the car in front, it would still be caused by the car in front moving onto the racing line when another car was already there. You cannot expect a car on the racing line to jam on its brakes because the car in front decides to occupy a space that already has a car in it.

I know you predicted some annoying person would come on here and blame you/the human and defend the AI, but you are making this too easy. Please show some different perspectives or add some explanation because your excellent recitation of official racing rules argues against your case in this first video.

The second video is a clear case of the car behind being aggressive in a very dangerous spot on the track. But, are we 100% sure the car in front did not lift (or brake) unexpectedly? Videos that show these telemetry details are more useful when it is not clear-cut from limited outside views.

 

Version: 1.6.9.91.3398.AVX
Track & Layout Used: Watkins Glen GP
Car used: Porsche 911 RSR '76
Settings: See below for full race setup

Code:

https://youtu.be/7zmjxu-iQwE?t=4636

Report: Player on inside line taking a stable approach and entry to the Outer Loop corner, AI car on the outside turns in as if taking the normal line and essentially turns into my left-side door as if they didn't know I was there.
The incident as it happened live (with player telemetry for steering and pedal input on screen):

Code:

https://youtu.be/7zmjxu-iQwE?t=5899

Reviewing the replay from multiple angles here:

Code:

https://youtu.be/7zmjxu-iQwE?t=6696

It is clear in the replay that the AI car see's my car, but only at the very last moment and does seem to try and take avoiding action.

This report is not about the incident up to this point though, as I think these incidents happen a lot in the real world, and should be a part of AMS2's reality as well.

This report is really to ask if something can be done about how the AI car reacts after the contact is made. It seems to try everything it can to maintain the racing line, continuing to turn onto my door/rear-quarter, and in doing so, sends us both off the circuit and loses us both far more time than is really necessary.
In instances like this, how feasible is it for the AI car to recognise its situation and divert to the wider line rather than continuing to try and make the racing line even though it seems it is aware that there is another vehicle in that space already?

Point of note, this race does involve a custom AI file

**EDIT - AI File Parameters for this driver**

Code:

    <driver livery_name="IROC Car 01">
        <name>Walter Röhrl</name>
        <country>DEU</country>
        <race_skill>0.94</race_skill>
        <qualifying_skill>0.90</qualifying_skill>
        <aggression>0.62</aggression>
        <defending>0.90</defending>
        <stamina>0.92</stamina>
        <consistency>0.92</consistency>
        <start_reactions>0.98</start_reactions>
        <wet_skill>1.00</wet_skill>
        <tyre_management>0.72</tyre_management>
        <blue_flag_conceding>0.96</blue_flag_conceding>
        <weather_tyre_changes>0.15</weather_tyre_changes>
        <fuel_management>0.30</fuel_management>
        <avoidance_of_mistakes>0.50</avoidance_of_mistakes>
        <avoidance_of_forced_mistakes>0.90</avoidance_of_forced_mistakes>
        <vehicle_reliability>0.85</vehicle_reliability>
    </driver>

All the best
Andy

 

I don't believe his arguments can be used against him at all, he has a strong case. We should always understand that we tend to slow time down not only while racing, but also while watching racing footage. There is a big enough difference between running with a skill setting below 100 or doing it at 110 or above (which I reckon is what you or I would use). It means that watching that video, it seems like there would be room for a move. But at the pace the race is taking place, it is not.

What I see on the first video is that the car in front never left the rubbered lane and is just apexing late to be better placed for the following corner. The car behind was never in position for a proper overtake (and it's not a place for it unless the car in front makes a big mistake, not the case here), and the space closes before it pokes the nose, already going offtrack before having any infinitesimal part of the car alongside the car ahead.

If we want to compare this to human behaviour in online servers: they would either tuck behind using extra braking capacity, go offline to the outside in evasion, or completely overshoot the corner and cut it, with a potential loss of control in the process. Not this magical return to apex with no loss of time, grip, or control. And it would still be wrong to just compare it to online human drivers; offline is much more that a training ground for online racing or its replacement. We should be able to simulate real world motorsport behaviours, and have them behave more like professional drivers. Not that it would be a guarantee for clean racing, but that behaviour on the first video is happening too often and for too many people (myself included) to just be disregarded. And is compounded by the ridiculous moves found in the following vids he posted.

Asking for the player to be more defensive in this scenario is both an immediate and long term problem. Immediate because a player should not always go on the defensive for a potential move that is not close to be on. But on the long term it is made worse by three AI traits: they lose less time on non-ideal lines or getting out of hairy situations, they get a performance boost being close to another car, and they are way less affected by dirty air. All of that means that if you have to cover every single low percentage move, it becomes impossible to shake them off and move on with your race. And that's not counting the effects of dirty air if you have a car in front, and the effects of tyre physics on having to strain your rubber with doing non ideal lines at all parts of the track to keep a crazy virtual rival from doing boneheaded moves. It will always put you in a losing situation on every fight against AI rivals with evenly matched pace.

Can you adjust your settings and racecraft techniques around this to still have a good experience? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Will it ever be? Hardly probable given the huge scope of content. Can it be better? We can only hope

 

A year or so ago there have been a couple changes made to the AI center of gravity calculation. This has solved some issues, but ever since then the AI in rear engine cars have not been able to handle tight direction changes without losing control. (Anything tighter than the ideal line causes issues)

The best examples for these cases are the GT2, GTE, GT3 Porsches around Sebring T1, Sunset and through the esses at Road Atlanta, Imola T5-T6 (Villeneuve) is also problematic

115 AI
Medium Aggression
AI mistakes OFF
Heavy rubber, default date

Some older examples:

And some more recent ones, including one posted by Brett Nagle a week ago to show that the issue still exist the exact same way.

This post by Tom is also an interesting one, but the related part is at 0:47 where every single PCUP car just spins out due to the very same issue - Reddit - Please wait for verification

 

Those clips you posted, i had seen this issue in the game at least ever since the Le Mans 2024 update. The "AI wiggle bug" as i call it. Happens majority of the times when an AI driver follows another AI or the player too closely and wiggles into a spin.