Official General AI Comments & Discussion Topic

I'm going to guess that they would cause potentially heavier netcode? Or maybe it just wasn't a priority to add these to MP, idk.

 

They climb all over the back of the slower car bumper to bumper , I don’t like to compare sims but it would be great if they managed traffic like LMU. Multi class racing is a bit meh because of this.

 

Hi I posted this in the general forum but maybe it belongs to here....
I am starting now to play AMS2 AI championships, and I would like to know the following:
- What is the set-up the AI cars use?, I suspect they use always the default set-up, I mean the one you get when you get first time in the game, also the one you get if you press Reset in the setup page. Am I right?, or according to the circuit they use different setups?, for example for a short circuit they use a short gear ratios and for very long ones like Lemans they use long gear ratios?, or they use always the same?.
- Regarding fuel load, what is the one the AI cars use?, in no stop races do they adapt the load to the length of the race?, or do they use full load or other?, and what they do in long races with stops?.
I ask these questions so I can have the more similar car as possible to them, to make the races more equal and fun, I asked the question in Reddit and other places but seems nobody knows.
Regards

 

They only question I dare to answer is the one according the fuel load. I think that the AI tanks up as much fuel as they need to finish the race in one stint (if this should be possible because of the tank size and the race length). I observed that they can achieve same laptimes than in qualfying when doing short races of just a few laps, but in long races, their laptimes drop.

 

• Car / Track used: GT3 Gen 2 and LMDh/ Watkins Glen (inner Loop)
• AI Strength setting: All
• Corner (if issue is corner specific):5-8 the Bus stop
• AI Aggression setting: 50
• Session Distance: Practice 60 minutes
• Weather when the issue was observed: Clear
• Player Tyre: Soft
• AI Tyre (if known to be different from player):
• Type of session when the issue was observed (practice / quali / race): Practice

Issue: The AI do not take the curbs at all through this section causing them to be very slow and giving up a lot of lap time compared to other areas of the track.

 

A fantastic discovery. I don't know if this has been mentioned before—I searched the forum and couldn't find anything. Recently, I started playing online multiplayer, but I got frustrated when I saw that the lobbies are almost entirely filled with hypercars, prototypes, and GTs. That’s all people play, even though it’s fun as well. It’s really frustrating not being able to find Formula lobbies. So, I started creating my own lobbies and adding some AI cars to race with me since, most of the time, I ended up racing alone, as I mentioned—there are practically no Formula players in simulators.

I set it up with the same difficulty settings I already used offline: AI at 100% to 106%, medium aggression, and everything else authentic.

And then came my surprise: THE ONLINE AI IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE OFFLINE AI, AND MUCH BETTER!!!

Try this! At least for the V10 and Hi-Tech cars, which I tested, I had the same impression with both. The online AI is more dynamic, more unpredictable, and more realistic. I've never raced in a real Formula 1 race, but I feel like I’m competing against real drivers—drivers who know how to race, who respect space, and who don’t turn it into one of those frustrating online races filled with amateur drivers. I’m fascinated by how hyper-realistic the online AI is. The movements, both offensive and defensive, whether against me or other AIs, are completely realistic and fantastic.

Two downsides: when I went back to playing offline, the AI was just the same as before, with multiple flaws and a more artificial feel. Also, the driver names are generic, and the car liveries are different from the custom livery mods we install.

So, here’s my request to Reiza: please add an option where each online player can load their own liveries (as it already works) and also the personalized names from the "CustomAIDrivers" folder. This would only apply to AI drivers, so I don’t think it would be an issue if each player saw different names based on their files. And, if it’s not asking too much, please bring the Online AI to Offline as well. They are different, but the Online AI is practically a perfect 10—it’s the pinnacle of AI perfection in a simulator today.

 

I played to many drive simulation games since many years (ACC, F1 series, Rennsport, RaceRoom, LMU...) but for me the best is actually AMS2 ! it's a very good game, good feelings on driving, very well optimized, graphics are stuninnig, and plenty of cars and tracks... BUT i don't understand why some AI bugs are not fixed yet !

Version: 1.6.4.2
Cars : GT3 GEN2
AI Strength: 105%
AI Aggression: Medium
Session Type: 10 min Qualif / 30min Race
Level : No help and cockpit view (full simulation)

This is a list of AI problems that should be fixed in my opinion and the game would be quiet perfect:

- AI drives too fast in first turns or first lap in qualif and race because it seems they are not affected (or not enough) by cold tyres and cold brakes > the result is we lost always 2,3,4 positions at start race or we could crash with AI if we try to resist > Reiza please slow down AI at first lap !

- AI doesn't slow down (or not enough) after they crashed into wall or cars > you can see cars damaged running as fast as before and even impossible to overtake > Reiza please slow down AI cars after they had big crash

- AI slow down sometimes in straight to let you pass when you're faster or when AI is in starting lap but immediatly after you overtake them, they attack you again and try to overtake you !! > it seems as soon AI is behind you , another script is done ??

- AI is TOO TOO fast in wet conditions tracks !
I made a simple test with 3 tracks (Adelaide, Oulton, Donington) in a McLaren 720 GT3 GEN2;
On dry conditions, at 105% dry, i'm 1st in qualifications with those times :
ADELAIDE : 1.18.1
OULTON : 1.35.1
DONINGTON : 1.28.1
On full wet conditions, (means with track already wet at start to don't have changing conditions) and wet slide to 1 with same set up as dry but just changing ABS and Traction Control at max and clutch disks decrease at 2 to make smoother in rain, i can't do better that the last positions and even sometimes with many seconds back !!
ADELAIDE : me 1.32.0 while AI is between 1.27.1 - 1.30.0
OULTON : me 1.50.0 while AI is between 1.44.1 - 1.47.6
DONINGTON : me 1.43.5 while AI is between 1.39.1 - 1.44.0

I really dont understand how have been done tuning ? Perhaps as i think, the tests have been done with tyres very hot and a special rain setup ? but it's a mistake because it doesn't happen in real race ! When you race, most of the time you run with normal dry setup and its' raining for a part of the race...
It's really bad to produce so beautiful wet graphics while it's impossible to play in wet conditions ;-(
> Reiza please slow down AI in wet conditions !

And one more thing is the flow of rain behind cars; it is probably very beautiful and perhaps realistic but too heavy and in a race start, it's quiet impossible to drive because you can't see anything ! > Reiza please make it lighter that we could race and take pleasure

Guys tell me if you agree with me and give a thumb up if you want Reiza fix those AI problems , else if you disagree, show me proofs and give me your setup and how you did tests !

 

Have you tried the AI wet skill slider ?

 

I have experienced exactly what you said about the AI not being properly affected by damage and apparently changing script as soon as you pass them, but I actually find the other two issues the opposite. When it comes to opening laps, I actually find the AI quite slow, and I usually make up a few places on the first lap, because they are quite cautious. In a few tracks, like Montreal for example, they also take very weird lines, but still drive slowly, and avoid going for moves even more than usual. It is a pretty similar experience to what I have on every other sim, it makes sense to make AI cautious at the start. But I do agree that they aren't properly affected by tire temps, from my experience their outlaps on cold tires are incredibly fast.

And about the rain, I think it is more of a car/track specific problem. In some combinations they are way too fast, in others they are way too slow. I remember a Canadian GP I did a while ago with the F-Ultimate Gen2, transitioning from wet to dry, and in the wet, I was the fastest car on the circuit, while in the dry I barely had the pace for a top 10.

 

Yes i tried this but even at 0.5 im' around 10-15 times position while in dry im' 1st so it's not logical and when you start a dry race and you got full rain it(s impossible to follow Ai cars, so it's pity to see you got so beautiful weather changes but you can't play with it, that's why i only play on dry races now unfortunatley

 

I've noticed that after 1.6.4.3, where multi-class is concerned, the faster class cars are VERY hesitant to pass the slower class. Specifically, I'm referring to LMDH and GT3 gen 2 at Le Mans.
It reminded me of their behavior pre 1.6 ...

 

Same with Daytona. I saw a LMDH push a GT3 car insted of overtake it.

and right after i had a GT3 car fighting me in a LMP2 when getting lapped.

 

AI dropping off after passing them is still an "issue" with the latest build, hope it's something that can be looked into one day.

 

I noticed since last patch V1.6.4.3 Ai is extremly slow for GT3 GEN2 at ADELAIDE track ???
Before the first AI time was around 1.18.8 at 105% dry and now it's like 1.21.5 ??
I am now more that 2.2s ahead the first AI...
There's something wrong done on this track
It's wet AI performance to decrease ,not dry

 

Aside the above I've really been enjoying the AI post v1.6 update, there's still some niggly issues here & there but overall I'm finding them an absolute blast to race against.

Having said that here are some general observations I've noticed recently racing against the ARC Camaros;

• Their overall lap speed decreases too much in a 20minute session, I can race behind them by a couple of seconds and our lap times are practically identical, but as the race goes on into the latter stages I'm able to catch & pass them fairly easily. Almost as if they lose too much tyre grip compared to the Human Racer, I have no data to "back this up" so will look into exporting Race Results one day to take a closer look. This also happened in a Wet Race.
• I set AI Mistakes to x2 but rarely see many from the AI, probably one or two a race (20minutes). Which maybe just right, I'll try a higher setting.
• Turn 5 at Cascavel the AI sometimes take to the inside of the turn and go right onto the grass (all 4 wheels) which slows them up, there's no tyre smoke they just seemingly want to go for a mow! This of course slows them down so it's easy to pass them on track.

Overal though great fun!

 

Given the discussion I've recently had in the Automobilista 2 V1.6.4.2 & Super Trophy Trucks RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.6.4.3 thread, I thought I'd best post some feedback here. Comments are based on several long races, 2-4 hrs x2 or x5 time acceleration, late afternoon starts into dusk or night, dry weather only. 107-115 AI strength with custom AI, skill spread from 0.6 to 0.99 for all classes. I'm in the lmp2 g2 with GT3 g2 and lmdh.

AI passing lower class traffic and lapped cars is still problematic. The lower class are quite random about how they go about slowing, particularly in a pack vs pack situation. Some cars move offline some not, causing chaos. At Kansai they seem very unaware of the player attempting to pass on the outside and not giving space, pushing player onto grass/gravel. Random hard breaking by the GT3 cars on the Conrod straight, Bathurst. The matching class as the player slows too much to allow the faster class to pass offering the player overtakes that are far too easy. I try not to exploit this but at times it's hard to not overtake even when trying hold position.

Lapped cars of low race skill get a big skill/speed boost to try to unlap themselves. Typically I am 1-1.5 seconds a lap faster than these AI cars, I aim to be pace matched at 0.8-0.85 race skill. The main issue is they manage to just overlap the players car on the inside under braking, let alone get half or even fully alongside. This compromises player lap times massively and often leads to a successful "pit" maneuver by the AI. This un-lapping should be reserved for only AI drivers with a very high aggression attribute. Currently most AI will attempt to unlap themselves regardless of race skill or aggression stats, even lower class cars. They will brake far later than the car in front of the player with no situational awareness inevitably causing incidents. It's not only the attempts that are the problem, it's the corners they try it in. For example Bathurst turn 3/4, The Cutting and anywhere from turn 11 to 18, Skyline to Forests Elbow, all attempts to overtake in these corners are pretty much guaranteed to cause a serious incident/crash. They are relentless. I think ideally tracks need to have their corners ranked low, medium and high risk with respect to overtake attempts (lapped or racing for position) by the AI as a global stat to be used in conjunction with the aggression attribute of AI drivers. Simpler to implement no doubt would be that some corners are ruled out entirely for overtake attempts by the AI. Perhaps a limit on overtake attempts per lap, linked to aggression. Ideally script some race craft, how to get a run on slower cars, crossing lines, late apex's for a good exit. The car behind being a crazed killer with infinite speed boosts to attack corner after corner, lap after lap, regardless of risk needs toning down. This is by far my biggest gripe with AMS2 AI. This behaviour combined with the fact that any contact between player an AI inevitably results in the player coming off second best is very frustrating. It feels as if the AI cars have more mass, but I guess is more likely a result of the AI's simplified physics/tyre model.

Tyre strategy/wear needs an overhaul. The AI pit far to early for worn tyres, some classes at only 5% wear or so (for the player). I could easily triple or quadruple stints on tyres without loosing significant laptime compared to the AI. That said lmp2 g2 are the best I've found so far in this respect and will perhaps go to 20-25% wear before pitting. I've tested with x5 tyre wear and real fuel usage before these long races to understand their strategy.

Damage needs attention, the AI have a huge advantage here against the player even with the realistic/low scale. The AI having broken headlights at night and aero damage being the worst offenders. AI suffer little lap time penalty, often don't pit for repairs. They can drive just as fast with no lights on dark unlit tracks/sections as they can in daylight. Likewise with broken rear wings in particular, suffer no excessive oversteer and corner at impossible speed compared to the player. Damage to rear wings from car to car contact is laughable, floor/diffuser damage is far more likely in this scenario. Rear wings high up on the car as with lmp2, lmdh and GT3 shouldn't come flying off when the impact is down low from the front wing of the car behind!

The following is, so far, unique to Bathurst. When battling with AI of the same class, both for position and lapped, the AI will often carry more apex speed than the player at turn 4 (The Cutting) resuting in contact. Sometimes this causes a spin for the player due to contact on the left rear pushing the player around. The resultant spin mostly happens when following another car closely into this turn and being comprised by their apex speed and the AI behind being unaware of the slower entry/apex speed. The second scenario is a result of a player mistake and being slower than the AI expects or is aware on entry/apex but the speed differential is not enough to cause a spin. The same thing happens at the end of the Conrod straight braking into turn 21, The Chase. The AI brakes later than the player, coming from a long way back. The impression I get is that the AI can brake later and has overpowered brakes into this turn. It results in either a small controllable push to the player, perhaps resulting in running a bit wide, or contact past the turn in point that causes the player to spin. The AI behind makes no attempt to change lane before or during the braking phase. Obviously the player could move more inside to defend, but the AI comes from so far behid it's very difficult to judge when this would be necessary. This is made worse because cars behind in the mirrors appear further away than they actually are, and are too far back to be visible on the radar widget. Repeated contact here and at turn 4 breaks off the rear wing completely, instant 100% damage. Very frustrating as this contact can't be reliably avoided. Interestingly in both corners (4 and 21) if the car behind is the faster the class (in this case lmdh vs players lmp2 g2) this never happens, even if fighting for position rather than being lapped. This is symptomatic of the inability of faster classes to pass slower classes. The same class is far more aggressive in this situation.

Calibration for cold tyres during the night, or weather changes would also be greatly appreciated. The AI laptimes are very consistent for a given difficulty in widely varied air/track temps, if and when the conditions change the player can be seconds off the AI pace.

In 1.5 the AI followed the player, hunting a tow down straights. That ability unfortunately has been lost and may give them opportunity for cleaner overtakes against the player.

Not AI related but yellow flags are non existent in single player but do seem to function somewhat in shared memory, so are visible when using second monitor.

Congratulations to all who got to the end of this lengthy post!

 

Formula USA 2023 and Gen 3.

refueling allowed, fuel use x2
Tire use x3

In both classes I’ll have the AI pit with 2-3 laps destroying immersion of the game. They’ll also all pit at the exact same time. The entire grid.

 

With Formula USA 2023 and Gen they are also awfully slow there. It seems they are consistently slow at one part of track but insanely fast in others.

 

Ever since the update the AIs (at least on GTP) have been clumping with 4+ cars, it used to be 2-3 cars at most.

Also I've been impeded numerous times by AIs when doing push lap in qualifying, they just wont give up racing line if they're approaching a corner even though they are not pushing.

 

What exactly does the Wet Skill Scalar slider touch? Say I've set up custom AI drivers with set wet skills between 0.2 and 0.8. Is Wet Skill Scalar overriding or multiplying the wet skill set in the custom AI files?