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Onboards: AMS2 vs. Real Life

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by CrimsonEminence, May 5, 2021.

  1. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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  2. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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  3. Mazdaspeed

    Mazdaspeed Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Don't know if this video is already posted but it's a real treasure!
     
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  4. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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  5. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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  6. Steve Young

    Steve Young Active Member

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    Clio Cup vs. AMS2
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2023
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  7. rmagid1010

    rmagid1010 Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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  8. Alexandre Bauer

    Alexandre Bauer Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Silly question: does someone knows why, doesn't matter what, we never reach this POV, in any sim soever?
     
  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    In the sim there are different reasons, why it can look different. The POV itself can be recreated by setting matching FOV, camera movement and seat position, the shaking is different for the drivers eyes/brain gimbaling than the camera in the real life video though and it also depends where exactly the camera is placed.


    This shows, how much more tidy and smooth the sim can look indeed (sorry for the horrible quality), even if the car is actually riding a more nervous setup. The real life video is a lot more "exciting" to watch than this recording i uploaded for the cam shakyness alone (my TrackIR cam is stabilized to horizon way more to emulate the eyes countering most of movements - it also can cause motion sickness otherwise). Then there's also the head getting the longitudinal acceleration/deceleration with each shift a good chunk more noticeable.

    The real life car doesn't even do full RPM by the sound of it btw., it's crazy but that engine doesn't seem to run on full potential at all in the Herta vid, the full push mode in that car would be even more insane in speeds, acceleration and throwing the drivers head around.

    After all it's probably true tho - when you ask a racing driver if the simulation is giving any remotely comparable picture to the real life experience in terms of how you experience the cockpit the honest answer would be probably "not at all" i imagine. :D
     
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  10. JavierZumaeta

    JavierZumaeta Active Member

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    a VR headset on a moving rig, it could look that way...
     
  11. Alexandre Bauer

    Alexandre Bauer Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks for replaying, but what I mean in fact is the visual distortion that we don't see in the Herta footage.
    We can realize things much more like a VR perspective, for example.
    In your video we see the wheels of the car as if it was right on side of steering wheel, and when rise the FOV we see a lot of distortion on the edge of the screen, like the image I'm posting below.
    I think the camera of real footage has some sort of correction, that neutralize this effect, and that would be a nice resource to have, and I don't saw it in any sim.

    Look how the wheels are distorted and with a unnatural shape.
    [​IMG]

    Here is another example of real camera being very different than what we can achieve in any sim.
     
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  12. YOUNG IL YOON

    YOUNG IL YOON crossfieldz_ROK AMS2 Club Member

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    most of driver's eye cam uses wide lens. it makes distortion. i should be careful to use wide lens videos to compare real sight.
     
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  13. Alexandre Bauer

    Alexandre Bauer Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It is funny you say that when I realize exactly the opposite, the game view has distortion, it is clear very on the edge of the screen, and the drivers eye looks very like what we see in VR for instance, specially because the modern cameras have correction for distortion. It isn't a Madness Engine thing, is on All games, you can see the wheels very distorted and lack of depth of view.
    Maybe it is an effect to intensify the sense of lateral speed.

    Another example of view with realistic depth:


    In game it is very different:

    Just when the player looks to the mirror, and the wheel gets positioned more in the center of the screen, it looks how it should, without that weird edge lateral distortion.

    Anyway, this isn't a thing I hope to be corrected em AMS2, just a general observation trying to understand why.
     
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  14. Michael3

    Michael3 Active Member

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    Well take a look at the RL video you posted, I know the Earth is curved but not on that scale. The horizon isn't flat in the "Leguna seca through my eyes" video is it?

    Other than that, the top picture, from the game, is completely different. The steering wheel in the RL video takes up most of the screen. They don't look the same because...well...you haven't attempted to make them look even similar to each other.

    Crimson's video, by contrast, is closer.
     
  15. Alexandre Bauer

    Alexandre Bauer Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    You'll never have a flat horizon in Laguna Seca, it is surrounded by mountains.
    But check the F1 video I posted and say it has camera distortion.

    Exactly, I exaggerate the FOV just to show my point.

    My view is usually like this:
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Michael3

    Michael3 Active Member

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    Mountains don't make the edges of the video curve downwards towards each other. That's the lens distortion (as the other poster said)

    Can you really not see it? You'll never get 2 videos to look the same until you develop the observational skills to spot differences between them. Although I see you're saying you deliberately posted 2 videos that didn't look the same - but you captioned them "these don't look the same" as though they should have looked the same.

    For now I'd suggest getting a ruler and measuring things - not just the distortion of the wide angle lens on the IRL car that someone else has said and you now seem to think is a mountain, but the relative sizes of things too.

    The bottom line, of course, is that the game doesn't have the necessary parameters to apply to the "lens" of the virtual camera to get it to match all the potential lenses that might have been used in random real life footage. I'd guess that's really because the camera views in the game exist mostly to drive the car rather than to create youtube footage - so it's more of a feature request than a bug.

    That said, I'd suggest Project cars made a mistake - they looked at lots of in car footage - as clearly sim fans do - figured these cameras shaking about were the reason that in car footage often looked exciting and fast and thought that it would improve a game if that happened too.

    Especially since a common issue with sims was the lack of a feeling of speed. So they spent their development budget for cameras creating these 'head shaking about' effects - in fact I think they started this kind of thing way earlier in NFS:Shift. The fact these games are on consoles probably didn't help either. So we lost a lot of features for typical cameras and views in games and got stuff that, I'd guess, most people are turning off when they drive anyway. Options that everyone turns off shouldn't have been options right? Worse they needed to add an option 'legacy' to further undo the damage.

    Obviously when it comes to actually driving a car you don't really want blair witch style camera footage. The people sat in these cars are not seeing what's in their IRL footage. When it comes to making a video maybe you want more control over the 'lens' of the virtual camera - and that's where the 2 separate uses for cameras in a sim depart.

    We're fortunate that VR was invented, by a completely different group of people, and that made driving sims work regardless of the sim developers. We had a decade or 2 of people waffling on about "cockpit" views and they were (and still are) completely unrealistic. Worse many older games tried to force these unrealistic views on players. The helmet thing particularly made me laugh in this game. When you're driving a car you don't have a steering wheel taking up 75% of the centre of your view - but whatever, I wasted a lot of time pointing this out in the past - and none of the other views were realistic either - but some of them were much better for playing the game.

    Sims were saved - and it's the only reason I'm playing them now - by a group of other people investing billions of pounds making VR work. Neither group paid much attention to one another, i.e Valve thought (and probably still do) that VR was about walking around the room tripping over your cat and punching the air. Thankfully it doesn't matter anymore - now you can sit inside the virtual car and look out the windscreen just like IRL.

    And the sense of speed? There really isn't any. That's why road engineers have to paint lines on the road and do various tricks to get the people coming off motorways to slow down (well, at least they once did - motorways are generally 4 lanes of traffic moving at 50 mph now - but in the past when people were driving at 80mph in a straight line for 2 hours straight they'd come off the motorway at 80mph and think they were doing 30mph)

    Although what is missing is the forces you get when accelerating whether that's speeding up / slowing down or changing direction, especially big variations in these. The camera doesn't fix that. You can control the car in VR from visual information, and the uninitiated might feel nauseous, but you won't feel the thing that makes Francesca Accordi scream when she's sat next to her husband Riccardo when he's driving fast. And TBH that's probably the only reason we can drive faster in VR because you can react to the car passively, without the same emotions that you get IRL - of course if you want to drive fast IRL the trick is to do the same, to be like Riccardo passively sitting and driving the car, not like his wife laughing and screaming from the passenger seat. But sims give you that for free.

    You can't get much closer to real life than that. From that pov though if I was developing a game then, sure, the camera views I would make more for creating footage than for driving and maybe the shaking around / changing the lens thing would make more sense.
     
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  17. JohnH

    JohnH Member

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    You can use reshade filters to create a lens distortion effects, perfect perspective and pantamorphic for example can create an adjustable fisheye effect. Though they will reduce the image quality around the center but when used moderately it´s not really noticeable.[​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  18. Alexandre Bauer

    Alexandre Bauer Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    You got my point, that really interest me. How can I get this, dude?
     
  19. JohnH

    JohnH Member

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    Here´s a pretty simple tutorial included Assetto Corsa F1 Fisheye for Reshade that one is made for ac but it doesn´t matter reshade works just as well in ams2, just uncheck the other filters and adjust settings to your liking it´s quite simple. Or then you can just download reshade and start experimenting with effects like perfect perspective or pantamorphic. In the pic I posted I used perfect perspective with a diagonal fov.
     
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  20. Micropitt

    Micropitt Mediocre driver doing mediocre laps AMS2 Club Member

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    Lap on the Nordschleife with Beitske Visser in the BMW M4 GT4

     
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