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OSW Help Needed with FFB

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Spin, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    Welcome Dave578 to the joy of a DD wheel and AMS. IMHO, AMS provides the most enjoyable experience that brings out the benefits of a DD wheel more than any other sim. It takes very little tweaking of settings in the Simucube confuguration tool or AMS to get a great experience.

    I'm not aware of a clipping app for AMS, but I do know on some tracks, particularly with high-downforce open wheelers (like that fantastic CART Extreme mod), you will experience "soft" clipping in high speed sweepers and corners. If you can search for Niel's major post on new features of Automobilista's FFB, he explains how some soft clipping was built into AMS' RealFeelPlugin.ini settings to enable consumer wheels to feel good. On our DD wheels, this built in clipping isn't necessary, so I recommend increasing the RealFeelPlugin.ini MaxForceAtSteeringRack entries. The RealFeelPlugin.ini file is in the main directory of Automobilista under the Steam installation folder.

    In case it might be a useful start for you, I'm attaching a screenshot of my Simucube settings for my large Mige. Also, below is my entry in RealFeelPlugin.ini for the CART Extreme cars and Formula V10 which I adjusted to eliminate soft clipping and maximize the range of forces produced by the wheel.

    I run in-game at 100% with zero minimum, on Pure 360. I use the Simucube settings to adjust strength (as you can see, I only run 36 % on my 28nm large Mige; your small Mige might be more like 50 %.


    RealFeelPlugin.ini excerpts:

    [CART:]
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-5100.000000
    SteeringDamper=11500.000000
    FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
    FrontGripEffect=0.000000
    SmoothingLevel=0
    Kf=6000.000000
    Ks=5.000000
    A=1.000000
    Kr=7.000000

    [F_V10]
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-3800.000000
    SteeringDamper=11500.000000
    FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
    FrontGripEffect=0.000000
    SmoothingLevel=0
    Kf=6000.000000
    Ks=5.000000
    A=1.000000
    Kr=7.000000
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Member Reiza Backer

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    Thanks for the post! Those are two of the cars I drive the most so I'll try your settings out. It's been fun to mess with all the settings and different sims with this wheel but it has also been a little exhausting, especially with AMS and rF2. There's just so many different things to change in the ini files and in-game, like having to check whichever car I'm driving to see what the steering rotation is.
     
  3. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    I'm with you . . . it is rather daunting. I've had my OSW for about six months now and spent a lot of time chasing and experimenting to no end with the MMOS, then Simucube settings--only to settle in, on advice of some smart guys like Dean Ogurek, with rather simple settings.

    AMS is pretty reliable to use Alt-Tab (even in full screen) and adjust Simucube on the fly. It works well to make a profile for each steering setup (360, 450, 540, 900, etc), and switch once the track and car are loaded.

    One thing I'd suggest, too, is the utility JoyToKey. It allows you to map keystroke sequences to joystick buttons. When tuning FFB in AMS, it is nice to map the RealFeel adjustment keys (CTRL 9 and CTRL 7) to adjust until it feels just right. In the RealFeel ini file, activate the voice feedback to "TRUE"--and it will audibly confirm your changes as you make them in the car. Adjustments made on the fly are saved specifically for that car, so you don't have to always edit the ini file and restart the game. I'm attaching a graphic which dates back to rfactor that shows the key strokes to use.

    Frankly, I've never gotten comfortable with settings in rFactor2---but haven't really focused on it because I enjoy AMS so much. rF2 felt great on my old T500 . . . someday I'll fiddle with it. Frankly, I wish all sims had as simple a system as RealFeel.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Member Reiza Backer

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    I've been running that one SimuCUBE profile that I posted in my first post, then just alt-tab out to it and change the steering rotation while leaving everything else the same. I haven't had any issues with alt-tab in AMS at all but it's a problem since I was playing rF2 in VR.

    I'm using a Fanatec BMW GT2 wheel so I can probably map the ReelFeel adjustments to the 7-way joystick that's on the right side of the wheel. Well once I install JoyToKey.

    Is the smoothing level in the RealFeel ini just a preference as to what feels better? I noticed yours are at 0 but I bumped all mine up to 9.
     
  5. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    That smoothing number is preference. As I've gotten used to the DD wheel, I'm finding I like a more and more raw experience. It seems at zero there is a very definite feel of the road surface coming through the wheel, which may or may not suit everyone.

    I did have some sense when I was tweaking the smoothing figure on track that going to zero actually smoothed out some abruptness to bumps. But, it could've been in my head. There are times I drive for an hour, take a break and watch the news and relax, then sit back at the wheel and am convinced the wheel is stronger or lighter---even though nothing's changed. Perceptions of the details on these wheels can actually change from session to session, I think.
     
  6. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Member Reiza Backer

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    Tested your RealFeel settings for the CART and FV10 and it's quite an improvement. The wheel no longer feels like it's trying to break my wrists and has quite a bit more feel. I guess I need to go back into the realfeel.ini and change the maxforceatsteeringrack on all the cars. What's a good number? Bump them all up ~1000 or so?
     
  7. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    I have found that generally adding about 30 % to the MaxForceAtSteeringRack entry for a car eliminates soft clipping. I have done some limited experimenting with Motec to find out the actual maximum force at steering rack is for some cars, particularly the formula open wheelers. As a result, some cars, like the Formula Ultimate, ended up with big jumps in the entry, though I haven't spent tons of time running those to see if it is the best feel.

    I'm attaching a pdf with my ini file (it won't let me attach an ini file on here). I'd be very interested in your take and the adjustment you make that work well.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Member Reiza Backer

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    Of the ones I drove that you made changes too, quite a difference in a good way. Amazing how changing that one value on each one makes some of the cars easier to drive and the wheel becomes less violent.
     
  9. Wergilius

    Wergilius Member

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    Where do I find the key binding for this? In my installation this changes FOV, I do not think I have changed this.


    Regarding the overall force some use in-game adjustment leaving the simucube at 100% and others do the vice versa. I have tried both and it's kind of hard to notice any bigger difference, anyone done tested and noted one way better than the other?

    Also when it comes to filters, would it be better to leave the in-game filter to 0 and only use the simucube filter? In the json for rF2, the in game filter (according to the notes in the file) adds some delay but don't know if that is true for AMS as well.
     
  10. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    The Realfeel key bindings cannot be changed. I would suggest going into the game controller config and bind FOV to either nothing or something else to free up the CTRL 7 and 9 for realfeel adjustments. Do note that the left CTRL and the right CTRL act differently. See the graphic I uploaded a few posts ago to see the shortcuts.
     
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  11. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    By the way, fellas--you may already know this, but in my off and on lapping the last few days, I have discovered and become enamored of Kansai/Suzuka. If you want to put the subtlety and power of the DD wheel on display, the cambered corners, elevation changes, high downforce, high speed sweepers and esses of this track make for a ton of fun in a Formula V10 car. I can appreciate why the real F1 drivers love this track so much. And it highlights the breadth of the FFB in this sim.
     
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  12. Scraper

    Scraper Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Kansai/Suzuka's Dunlop Curve is great just with my DFGT - it must be a nerve-jangler with an OSW. :eek::)
     
  13. Alan Nash

    Alan Nash New Member

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    Scarper, Dunlop is rather exhilarating. So are the abrupt changes in suspension loading that come with the series of right-hand sweeps following the hairpin---(is it 200R?). The rather abrupt elevation changes while in high load turning make the palms a bit sweaty. This stuff is just too fun.
     
  14. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    I'll just address the bold part...The strength slider in-game definitely affects clipping. I could feel this way before I got a DD wheel. I could feel this with Thrustmaster T500RS, TX/T300RS, and with the Fanatec CSW v2. Going around the 1st sector at Suzuka, I would feel my FFB stop increasing too early when in-game FFB was at 100% with the Brazilian V8s. I had to lower it to around 75% or 80% and then I could feel FFB increasing well past the point it did at 100%.

    I did many tests with different cars. It's easily felt actually. I did most tests with the Fana CSW v2. Think of the in-game strength setting as a sort of FFB multiplier. Or, think of the in-game strength setting being the inverse of the MaxForceAtSteeringRack. In other words, the lower you set the in-game FFB strength, the higher the MaxForceAtSteeringRack becomes (although the MaxForceAtSteeringRack number doesn't actually change but it's basically the same effect).
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  15. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Member Reiza Backer

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    Quick question. If you use the CTR +7 key to increase FFB. How does that affect the realfeel file? Just it change the max force within the file?
     
  16. Wayne Whitmore

    Wayne Whitmore Member

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    What are all the HX cars in your ReelFeel file?
     
  17. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    Nice! I've been doing basically the same thing. Around 30% raise in MFSR (max force steering rack) and sometimes I go into motec and see what the cars are doing.

    I guess the best thing to do would be to test every car with maximum grip (max downforce, softest tyres, etc) on the grippiest circuit and see what the highest steering load is in motec; that way we'll know the highest cornering steering load that car will ever produce and you can base your MFSR off that number. I want to do this someday.
     
  18. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    The softer and sharper response in the realfeel quick keys work, this is confirmed from realfeel voice and just from feel but the realfeel.ini doesn't show this number. Why?

    If the realfeel softer/sharper response is dampening (this is what the voice says) then why does adding more and more dampening make the ffb lighter and lighter until FFB is disabled? It doesn't seem to dampen as much as it seems to just lower FFB forces in general...
     
  19. Spin

    Spin Active Member

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    I've noticed in the ISI physics and also FFB over the years, you can often have very little steering lock applied entering a corner but the moment you add even a little bit of brake, the car suddenly turns in dramatically as if you suddenly applied a bunch of steering lock along with a bunch more front-grip. Apart from the physics, this also seems to show itself in the FFB where you can suddenly feel the FFB heavily ramp-up. I also verified this using the Realfeel console - FFB ramps up to 60-80 % FFB output even though it was only around 45 % before the brakes were touched.

    This can be replicated in every car regardless of setup (although different cars and setups will exaggerate or hide the effect more or less). I've never experienced this in real life racing nor have seen it in real racing. The effect is also much less pronounced in other racing sim-engines (eg. Netkar Pro, Live For Speed). Does anyone know why this happens and so strongly only in ISI-engined sims? As soon as you apply a little steering lock, you just touch the brake a bit and cars suddenly want to change their line and do a "super turn-in" and the behavior also affects the FFB with the FFB suddenly spiking to very high levels.

    You can hide this effect by inducing a bunch of understeer - way more understeer than you should need or want - (no toe-out, brakes way to the front, very high amount of coast diff, overly stiff front-end with overly-soft rear. etc.) but, unless you're understeering like a truck, the car doesn't want to stay on it's line - it suddenly darts to the inside of the corner as if some invisible hand grabbed the car and made it turn-in sharply...

    The reason I posted this in a FFB thread is because you can feel what almost seems like FFB clipping when this happens because the FFB ramps up real high and then, when you do need to turn the wheel more, you don't get any increase of FFB because your FFB already increased to such high levels (from the effect I described) even though you've hardly turned the steering wheel at that point.


    It makes playing with high FFB forces very difficult because your vehicle is almost always outputting very, very high FFB forces even at relatively low speeds and steering angles because of the way the FFB ramps up to very high levels the moment you mix low degrees of steering lock with low amounts of brake...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  20. Fanapryde

    Fanapryde Member

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    Hi guys, new to OSW and could use some help eliminating an issue.
    I'm using a Small Mige (BisC encoder) with Simucube.
    I managed to get the right (for me) settings in most sims, and I am pretty happy with the set.

    But AMS provides me with a rather violent movement of the wheel to the left to the bump stop. This is happening when the car is in the pitbox (before starting to drive) or when coming to a halt on track.
    I have tried all settings in the Simucube config tool, went through the in game FFB settings, but could not find a solution.

    It feels like the FFB is reversed, but as soon as the car starts to roll, the effect is gone and the FFB is OK.

    I'm clueless... :(
     

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