Physic discussion thread

Can you try it at Donnington?

I used my brakes to get around the hardness in the turning. Its like its a cork in the muscle or a sprain where you have to baby it.

I fired up AMS1 last night or the night before and it felt a lot more neutral about such things.

An example on Donnington AMS2 is the turn leading onto the straight - it cannot be done quickly though the A.I will. I need to introduce wheel spin to flick it round on the f309.

This is what I mean when I say a lot of cars have a hard-limit it seems and need a ghost-hand to gently nudge it in the direction you want, and sometimes counter-steer where you don't want to overturn - and its not as predictable as one may hope... Its like being asked to hop or skip in a running race to overcome some shortfall in the track once in a while.

Or like pushing a muscle that has a strain.

So this issue is

1 not transparent
2 obscured from view a lot of the time.

3 but I am glad someone(s) have been noticing.

You go into ACC and its almost like the cars are free-flowing water. If you get too used to babying the car around or keeping a tight leash on it you will think ACC is too free flowing.

 

Thanks for that. I am driving it at the moment. I will pay attention to this stuff now.

 

Would be interesting to see the Group A Merc compared (PC2 VS AMS2), because at the moment I know which feels a hell of a lot better (Default setups).

 

Drove f309 at cadwell, ramps at 89 and preload 0.

Handled pretty well and always oversteered after apex with gentle turn and low speed, it was all nice and pliable and smooth.

Does the game engine calculate apex before and after?

The game certainly seems to understand the notion and apply different values.

It was a great drive but one may expect oversteer, accounted for it and car tracked well. Still it was unnerving to see the stark contrast when looking out for it. At modest speeds I did not spin out. Cold everything.

So I just had a good amount of laps and it felt pretty great to drive. not sure what diff was doing but car drove as well as could be expected so it seemed. It did not feel like the behavior being spoken about.

Are there patch notes about a hybrid diff system? Anyone know?

So if I push this thing even with these settings I will get this diff lock problem?

edit: I seem to get it at the very end/exit when under a high type of load. back comes out with weight but its definitely not open. whole car moves rather than remain tracking forward. is that intended?

crew chief is forever saying ok you're locking up your fronts a lot on any track actually to combat this kind of thing, i personally need to brake, but usually in that I am going too fast to get the diff thing out of it i guess

 

Good stuff. This here is why the PC2 version feels much better to me physics wise. By quite a long way. It feels nowhere near as predictable in AMS2 regards braking/turn in, and in mid-corner throttle control for me.

 

Well cadwell with preload 0 and ramps 89 on f309 is a great drive really.
I still think the back is separated from the front though.

I am turning on green line and following other cars at times, and when you push it in bits you can still feel the back dragging the chain so to speak. sometimes all through a turn, sometimes in little patches at start or mid or after in turn.

doing time trial but I also think the other f3 car was a lot better on this issue iirc but it could be because its slower and donnington is hardly super demanding for it.

 

It would be brilliant I bet. I posted a 1.25 lol from two laps. But probably only 75% pushing it. The ghost cars were a lot tighter close to the turns, 10 seconds overall faster even if most people went at 1.21.

The car with preload 0 and the 2 ramps at 89 had a lot of lift off oversteer and I could track it just nice, no it was not perfect and it felt like a heavy object was laying on the back of the car putting things off maybe, but also the locking was almost certainly present either before or after (turn in or exit I am sure of it like a plane landing then taking off; and at the moment I probably dont want it); so the actual experience is close but its would be a whole lot better/free-er feeling.

So while I could predict things well enough, its not on point yet. Still fun but not such as mentioned where it should be at.

While car is good to drive its not as close to simulation as it probably should be - the locking effect, being like a drum as such rather than wheels if that makes sense in distinct places just when you need that extra tractability.

Whatever though. More testing need to define it further in my case. Its there taking bites almost.

 

Second follow on post. - will someone try cadwell with preload of 60 and default ramps BUT 4 clutches.

It goes wonderfully on that track (cadwell park).

Also then raise downforce right up?

27 front and 28 back

I think that the diff may well be an issue and a lot of things work around it. But if so then is it always the case (like in rfactor we flub the setups lol) that it won't be enough to get a good sim?

right now it could be possible at times and on certain tracks, in certain cars, to get something going working in conjunction with other settings - unreal as they are in terms of adjusting a lot upward to get close to a great drive - to get a great tractable drive.

This setup goes really well at Donnington too. eg, and car kind of holds up in a spin and slide and all that - its very controllable - but is it exact? I don't know - but its great to drive.

May as well go download the telemetry stuff to tap into the sub system if possible.

 

Seems then that this whole section of the sim has been taken out of the equation and basically dampened.

Same here that I would have thought 0 preload would be like trying to tie up a load on a truck with the knott of the rope barely tight.

That it even works at all is interesting. but with 60 preload and 4 clutch plates, and a LOT of downforce the car becomes good. I just don't know/from feedback in sound and feel through wheel if the diff is doing what its supposed to do a little more than usual.

certainly if one slides the car the whole thing seems to open up - how else could it grab the road again (after say doing a 270 degree slide) unless thats a separate lump of code doing that work instead of diff etc calcs

I am guessing it is definitely not even if it drives good due to the downforce I suppose.

And also I am wondering if the brand new cars, being from a clean slate, have more about them in that lump of code/values so that they use the differential better. At least then there's a relation established and reference point. Or is that worked out already thats the case.

or then again is it that the tracks made already do not take into account the diff. not fully sure how these things work or which ones are required (like in textures/cubemaps etc) to be present to give the final result/how they work together. Thus if one was to go to Spa, for example, in the new cars, they may limit this effect entirely.

__

But donnington with 60 preload, those downforce settings mentioned 2 clutches and default ramp, goes surprisingly well. Cold tires and brakes, outlap is very decent

Could it be that donnington under this circumstance is within bounds. Could this also mean that the diff settings kind of work - wondering how long a rework would take?

 

Ha! well done for 1.15

Yes working around it - which confuses me very often so thank you for the info.

Just did ACC with McLaren 720 at imola. It drives like a dream by comparison. off throttle and on to it, out of turn and into it, can even correct well during a turn when on wrong line (after first straight for example) and the car still tracks forward.

Yes AMS2 can be very exciting at imola. So I will head back there with a new car to look at it and how it measures up in a side by side .

Never realized in exact terms though I guess everyone knew something was up, what was going on.

Actually correcting some of it in the suspension is what I sometimes do on various cars. I just don't have a consistent system I do with them all.

So while Imola is not going to be exact, wonder if its improved because in AMS2 it can be very thrilling throwing a car round it.

 

In the McLaren GT1 I just went around Imola pretty sloppily, with 2 clutch plates and 72 power ramp (edit) and 150 viscous LSD value. IF I change my driving habits diligently over time I reckon I could post a very respectable lap time with that setup.

Thats down from 4 clutch plates and 75. That was also setting change number 5 or 6 to arrive at that. Tried to establish a baseline, then standard deviation; but at no point did the diff system approach anything like ACC for example.

I have 32gb ram and have both loaded and swapping between.