Physics discussion thread

Thank you very much for your explanations. Maybe I have difficulties to express myself correctly (in English). And yes: Most of your inputs were positive. I'm sorry that I only focused on your cons.

Of course we don't need to be professionals or experts but it would be helpful for Reiza if we would/could provide data. Feedback like "they are slidey" do not provide enough "data" for Reiza. That was the point I was trying to articulate. We have to be more precise to help Reiza to improve things: In which situation is the car slidey? Are the tyres skidding or is it tyre (sidewall) deformation which causes that slidey feeling?

I am sorry that I didn't explained myself like that in the first place. It wasn't my intention to be rude or offensive.

Edit: I just saw that this is the discussion and not a feedback thread. Again: I am sorry for my posts. They might not even belong here. Moderators feel free to delete my posts. Apologies to Emptyjar and all of you.

 

Okay well now I feel bad, lol, no worries. Sorry I got defensive.

I am confident Reiza knows exactly what we're talking about with how common the 'slidey' criticism is made. (EDIT: Disregard this next part, i cannot find this, so safe to assume I am wrong and this post does not exist) I am pretty sure there was even a post from a Reiza employee not long ago that said that AMS1 had too much grip, and now AMS2 has too little, but i can't seem to find it.

 

Are you left-foot braking, and if so, are you blipping the throttle on your downshifts? There's definitely a bit less grip but they are unforgiving if you aren't using heel-toe, much like V8 Supercars

 

Thanks for the update, I've locked myself in the garage since Friday and working on my toys, but not gonna lie; my mind is with that M3 GTR. The timeless E46 M3 has always been my favorite ride of all time. I haven't got a chance to try the new rides and specifically the phisycs update, but a good friend here who's been around AMS2 since the title was born messaged me and he was clearly disappointed. He thinks nothing has changed.

Even though I trust him 100%, but I'm going to spend a couple hours tomorrow to get a feel of it. Honestly, if we can not FEEL constant improvement after 5 years or so & multiple updates at this point; that means the game engine is completely broken and is unable to please many sim heads that have been outspoken and complaining about the same topic for years. It's simple as that. We don't have to be Micheal Schumacher to proof something that doesn't feel right with facts, drawings, two hours of YouTube videos in suit and tie. At the end of the day, it's just a game so feelings are way more important than facts.

As a small part of the community, I don't see any reason to follow up on this topic if I feel what our friend that I mentioned above shared with me.

 

Sounds like you have already made your mind up.
Did 20 ish laps in the BMW last night and was pleasantly surprised at how predictable it was when pushing to my limits.

 

There is difference between giving observations and making a statement that something is incorrect. If you say something is wrong/off, it would be preferable and useful to have something to back up that claim, especially on things like how something "feels". It's fine not to like how some handle, but that also don't make it necessarily wrong, just matter of taste.

I want the game to become as good is at could be, so if anybody has some proof that something works incorrectly, I hope they would share it, which might end up making a difference in a long run.

The GT2 Porsche was something that was discussed in the beta (also with devs) and by all accounts, it seems to handle close to how it those were in IRL. Now, I don't have any personal knowledge of this car or opinion is it correct or not, but somebody has contracting proof that it's not correct, please let us know! Anyway, it's true that the rear wants to go on corner entry easily and you need to know how to handle it to have fun and it's definitely not for everyone.

As for the GT3, I don't notice huge differences either, but I don't think that was even expected. From what I understood from devs, the tires should be a bit peakier now and basically you should have more grip and probably steeper drop-off, but I personally didn't yet find that cliff on the rear at least, when I have tried them. That being said, I don't think the rear is slidy at all, but the cars can feel somehow "mushy" (I wanted to say "boaty", but not sure is that best way to describe it) and I think it's more related to the suspension/chassis physics on those cars. There are some other traits, like lack of weight/inertia feeling (unless you are going downhill on places lile Bathurst), but again, I don't have any proof, so it could be subjective experience. I'm fine with driving these though, I can a lot of fun racing with them, but there are definitely cars that give a lot more pure joy of driving them on AMS2, for example all the cars that were just released.

 

Agreed, that's why i said, "I'm not saying they are 'wrong', as i've never driven one in real life, but if you didn't like physics in AMS2 before, you won't like these cars."

And data is good to have for sure, but even 12 year old me knew that the R34 Skyline wasn't realistic in NFS Underground 2, and i had never driven anything at all in real life at that point.

This forum is funny... you can say "The retro Formula 1 cars feel so good in AMS2!!" and get 10 likes and no one questions it, but the second you mention a cars tires having slightly too little grip to be convincing, people start questioning the 'data' you can provide, or experience you have, as if any of us have the experience to say what a 1988 Formula 1 car should feel like.

 

That's interesting. I have a problem with both GT2 cars that I don't understand - maybe it has something to do with that. I only drive cars without ABS (I use good load cell pedals) and think I know what I'm doing. In my opinion, the two GT2s sometimes behave erratically. Take the Porsche, for example: I can drive x fast laps at Daytona, but suddenly I get total lockup when braking into turn 1, and within seconds my front left tire (and only that one!) is 30-40% worn and the car is practically undriveable.
The same thing at Road America, braking for turn 5 (Moraine Sweep) - I really only press the brake pedal a millimeter and suddenly – for no apparent reason – everything just locks up, and then the front left tire is ruined.
It's always the two GT2s (Porsche is worse), always the same turns and always the front left tire. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it perhaps a bug? Or is it a special behavior of these cars that I haven't understood yet? Even with setup adjustments, I can't get rid of this particular behavior.
I've checked my hardware and it's fine. I'm using the standard setups. Other vehicles (e.g., the GT1 or the new BMW) drive fantastically.

Ok, I´ve done some tests in Donington.
With the brake force at 75% (this may only work for my pedals), a brake balance of 60/40, a rear anti roll bar of 1 and a front anti roll bar of 5 I was at least able to adjust the car so that it doesn't constantly try to kill me. But it is still bitchy under braking, feels sometimes more like a drift car.
To continue the exorcism even further, one could reduce the coast ramp value to make it more and more understeery in the lower speed range too...
Damn, I hate this car. Can't stop driving it.

 

@CrimsonEminence
Very helpful, thank you Sir!

 

I don't race the GT3s a lot but for me the latest update has made them drive the best they have, they feel tight, the front end is now no longer to powerful and for the first time ever I can confidently trail brake in them without losing the rear, well the Audi anyway, that is the only one I have tried so far, great work team Reiza

 

I don't go by make ups and maskings in life buddy, specially when it comes to cars. I don't go to a church, mosque or temple to lift my inner soul. I pull out a car from the garage and drive it with no destination (sometimes for hours) to clear my busy head and even to make important decisions in life.

I'm so happy to hear you and others are feeling well about how our favorite sim is performing after the new update and I'm so pumped to try it myself when I get a chance after hearing those somewhat positive feedbacks. Far away from my sim rig mentally at the moment because of the projects I've been working on, but still... Dying to jump all over that M3 GTR soon.

Finally, if there're a few people that really want AMS2 to shine brighter than the sun in the Sim Racing world; I could easily claim that I'm one of them because of the hours I have behind the wheel on this sim and how much I believe in the build.

Many thanks to you and everyone else here for sharing your thoughts. We will surely improve together as a community if we stick to that realistic mindset without attacking each other

 

I‘m also struggling with the 2005 Porsche GT2 and want to master it or at least do 4 to 5 laps withouth dying
Crimsons advice is gold and really helped me already. Another thing I noticed: I don‘t think the car is doing so well with left foot braking, I feel like the car is locking up quickly when you slam your left foot down and try to trail brake. For me, it went better when I do most of the braking in a straight line and never with a 100% brake pressure (I still brake with the left foot).
Also I don‘t use a Shifter but the wheel pedals, therefor I needed to learn never to shift in a situation I normally wouldn‘t take a hand off the wheel!
If you like, DM me and we can discuss this car and maybe share setups etc..

 

1.6.8.6 enhanced the GT3 Gen2 experience more than the 16.8.5 which was the "major" patch.

I applaud Reiza for sticking for the physic development so determinedly. I'd have never expected how far they're willing to go. I suspect the devs are very prideful about their work as they should be.

IMO they're 90 % there - i only notice some shenanigans in chicanes and esses where the front ignores the mass somewhat.

EDIT: To elaborate more, i think this is most apparent with the AMG GT3 in slow corners. Medium and high speed corners are fine, but i can manhandle the AMG's massive front in lower speed corners by wrestling the steering wheel very aggressively and the tyres acts like sort of overcompliant jolly in those scenarios.
EDIT2: I suspect it has something to do with the aero modeling. It feels almost like the downforce is same level in low- and high speed corners.
In reality the GT3 cars are heavy and when there's not much df helping in lower speed, they tend to understeer relatively more.
it's crazy how the AMG GT3 is so completely opposite in LMU and AMS2 - In LMU it doesn't want to turn at all and the steering wheel goes light if you nudge it even slightly too much. In the other hand in AMS2 you can happily wrestle yourself in and out of any low speed corner.
IK they're different spec in these titles, but it's hilarious how far apart they are.

 

I hope this is the right place to ask, as it may or may not be physics related, but what do we know about the tire scrub/tire squealing issue? You see almost everyone just say 'turn the volume down to around 20' or whatever, but I am curious about it, as this has never been fixed/addressed as far as i am aware.

What triggers the tire scrub/squeal audio to play? It definitely comes into effect much earlier than other sims, stays later than other sims, and is louder (unless you really lay into the tires) than other sims.

It seems to happen in weird places, like the hard braking zone into T1 of Suzuka/Kansai in a GT3 Gen 2. The instant you begin to turn in, those tires are squealing, but ABS is not firing, so it's not like I am locking up. The wheel doens't have to be turned very sharply at all for this to happen. And they squeal the entire time throughout the esses of Suzuka, which gives a bad impression of understeer.

Does the actual loss of grip trigger the tire scrub sound? Or is there some other reason that causes it to play?

I am pretty confident i can feel the tire scrub when this occurs , but maybe it's all in my head? I am really trying to lock down why this game feels more 'slippery' than others and I really do think the tires are losing grip when that tire scrub audio plays. if that is true, turning down the volume isn't really a solution to the problem.

 

I think all the new cars lack auto-blip on downshifts, so you'll either need to time a blip correctly with your left-foot braking, or switch to heel-toe. I think auto-clutch also will blip the throttle for you on downshifts but I never use it

 

The 996 is actually the only one that has auto-blip, it was one of the advantages it had over its competitors.

EDIT: Blipping the throttle definitely helps even when using auto-clutch. I always do it in cars that need it and it definitely improves stability on downshifts.

 

Dump question: What is blipping the throttle and how you do it?

 

Simply put, you hit the accelerator pedal during downshifts to raise RPMs to a value that is slightly above what the lower gear needs. In H-pattern cars this is usually done via the heel-and-toe technique, which means that the left foot depresses the clutch pedal, while the right foot hits the brake as well as twisting over to the gas pedal at the same time. This is done to avoid locking the driven axle (usually the rear), which could easily lead to the rear of the car stepping out.

For cars with sequential transmission, this may or may not be necessary depending on the electronics. Modern GT3 cars for example have both shift cut (no need to lift the throttle during upshifts) and auto-blip (no need to use the clutch nor blip the throttle on downshifts); the "new" 2005 GT1 and GT2 cars on the other hand have auto-cut, but not auto-blip (with the exception of the Porsche 996), which means you should match the revs on downshifts.

 

@Siggi_Stoppschild a visual sometimes helps Fortunately I learnt to use heel-toe on the road when I was 17 so I've already been doing it a long time.