Physics discussion thread

I completely agree in that these last two patches have made the likes of the GT3’s nice and planted and feel really nice to drive and also that the last bit they are now missing is the finer details and as you explained they can be brute forced around the track more so than others.

But overall the floatyness is gone and it actually feels like you’re driving on a track in a car.
So if they could get it to where the steering can’t be brute forced as much and balance out the throttle/brake balance and by that I mean the rotation from the throttle is very overpowered when compared to to trail braking and other finer details, it’ll make them even better.

 

There is something with the stockcar 2019 that is just perfect. It feels like you can really balance it with throttle and brake, it communicates really well. It doesn't over rotate and it tells you exactly where the limit is. Unfortunately I don't get the same feeling with the other cars in game.

 

I wouldn't take LMU GT3 as the main reference. For example the Corvette in LMU just sucks with constantly stuck between heavy understeer on corner entry and completely spinning out on corner exit if pushed. Meanwhile the car is one the best GT3s in real life right now as it won IMSA GTD Pro and is 3rd & 4th in WEC and 2nd in Asia GT Challenge. In LMU you won't see any high ranked player even touch it with how bad it is.

Haven't driven the AMG with 1.6.8.6 yet but will give it a try later. But it's considered one of the worst GT3s in LMU too

I think AMS2 nails the bop way better that every GT3 is completely valid to choose even with stock setup but keeps it's unique characteristics. But Reiza should reset the GT3 leaderboards, the cars really evolved since 1.6 dropped a year ago and you still have tracks dominated by the Lambo back from when it dropped overpowered.

 

I haven't driven it much myself, but from what I read and watched, the Merc has been one of the worst offenders of this underteery behavior in LMU since that car got released there. I guess they updated it a bit (or just the default setup) after the initial release, but nevertheless, it doesn't make any sense to me that these cars wouldn't be able to turn well in slow speed corners especially or that they get so aggressively understeery with throttle use than tend to do in LMU.

Now, I don't know how correct in AMS2 at this very moment, but I really appreciate the fact that the cars actually aren't that understeery on slow corners and tend to get understeery mainly in the faster parts (unlike in LMU where I feel I need to fight the understeer all the time). I do find it's really hard to get lose the car to oversteer anymore though or even go over the limit with the rear grip (unless I unstabilize the car with some kerb or something or really keep the nose down with braking deeper into slower speed corner), in high speed parts, it's like the rear get's just so much grip from aero, even with lower rear wing values that you all you get is the understeer.

ps. I do think the Merc is the slowest of the GT3 gen2's still, even though the bop made it a bit better than before.

 

I think there was some new tire noises added not that long ago, maybe you are referring to those with that "squeel" sound? I remember hearing it first time on beta test and there it felt like it came always with a delay, after already being on the limit. Like after spinning, it felt like the sound remained for a split second after you have stopped moving, but wasn't audible when you were approaching the limit, before spinning. I wonder could there be still some sync issues with that effect and physics info for, which it should be based on?

In AMS2, you seem to get this tire noise that sounds a bit like driving on a gravel road or tarmac with gravel on top whenever you are cornering, no matter what and I don't think that is related to sliding, being on limited or anything like that, it's more like some movie effect. It's something I don't think other sims do (or the sound is way different if it's even there). Totally useless and I think it even can drown any actually valuable sound information, like the squeel that you might be referring, which for me at least, get's buried under this one and I only might hear the trail off (I would get rid off it or change it to something totally different and less intrusive)

 

Hah, like the corvette most in LMU.

But yeah, From the scale of rocks-to-jelly, LMU is definitely driving on rocks and AMS2 on jelly.

There are some sim titles in-between which simulates slick tyres.

 

It feels like the rear is aiding in rotation with some weight transfer shenanigans when on throttle/or coasting.

What i mean is if you coast to a corner and simply turn the steering wheel, it's like the rear grip lightens and does the weight transfer for you.
That's why some people claim that in AMS2 you don't steer the front axle, but the whole car.

In real life, if you want to produce this behaviour, you need to trail brake.

Once again i'm talking out of my ass, but i suspect this is byproduct of the Madness engine.

 

I wouldn't say any real behavior is because of an engine, but the inputs. We have seen how Reiza can change the feeling with minor changes. I bet if they wanted it to feel like ACC or LMU they could. IMO we should stop saying "X feeling is because of the madness engine", but "X feeling is because of something Reiza have done"

 

I'm pointing towards the engine, since i've noticed the same behaviour in another Madness engine title, the Project Cars.

 

Here's another tip: set the engine braking to 8 or 10. The higher the value, the weaker the braking force, and the handling will feel more... With these three adjustments, even though I'm still driving the Corvette GT3, it's already very close to the one in LMU.

 

Honestly if you still have to adjust this value you should focus on your driving technique. Reducing engine braking will heavily slow you down. You really have to overdrive the GT3s really hard to still lose them on corner entry, so somethijg must be very harsh on the input side if you need less engine braking.

Same goes for adjusting the diff, more indepent wheels will result in less acceleration. Both tips are from many years ago when AMS2 was quite "slidy" on corner entry. The Corvette is planted so well, don't give up time to fix false habits

 

It wasn't "many years ago", as it was before the September update when the rear wanted to go on corner entry a bit too easily, but even then, I didn't think changing the diff and engine braking was the best way to handle the issue. I agree 100% that those things aren't needed anymore as there is no such problem and if anobody have such problems, it's more likely problem with the inputs.. (Corvette is a bit more pointy than some other GT3's though, but nothing that couldn't be handled).

Engine braking is more about matter of taste and yes, reducing engine braking can make you slower by reducing the amount of braking potential available in places where maximum is needed (t1 monza for example), I also find it's more consistent way to helping to keep the front down just enough for turning effectively vs. doing it manually by adding tiny amount of brake force with brake pedal. There are people who do not like engine braking (in F1 Lando Norris has stated this for example), so it's more matter of preference.

 

A "correct" driving technique may still require a setup that differs from Reiza’s defaults.
(revised for clarity)

This!! (I didn’t know that.)
My personal driving style works best with the engine brake set to 6–8 (since that force is somewhat unpredictable for me), so I offset it with a +2–3% rear brake bias. This gives me strong yet controllable braking performance (easily adjustable for each turn).

Many have noted this before: Reiza’s default setups could adopt a more conservative baseline, allowing experienced drivers to fine-tune according to preference, ideally by providing both “safe” and “fast” setup variants.

 

I stated it that way since the reducing clutches / reduce engine brake tip go back to posts like this from 2,5 years ago. I think it's the wrong way to instantly jump to trying to adjust the setup if you have no clue how the person who states the issue is driving. Yes there are things you can change to reduce the power of a cars so they are easier to drive, but I think it's the wrong way around on issues.

You should always try to find the limit of car first. Each car has unique characterics, but sometimes these are key elements that make the car fast. If you tune down acceleration and braking power it might be easier to drive, but you suddenly end up in a car that can't hold up anymore compared to trying to learn how each car behaves. Nobody is saying hey just increase rear aero to max or reduce fuel mapping which is a hyperbole of the same tip

Of course this is entirely different if you're already an experienced driver, have proper technique and try to adjust a car to find the last tenths in the car. Like on Mosport since you're bascially always in a corner a more open diffential can help put the power down faster when the car is too itchy in the rear.

My personal experience is just that every single GT3 can be driven against 110 AI without issues in the 100% stock setups from Reiza (some tracks are a bit harder like Long Beach, some a bit easier like Spielberg). If you want to reach beyond that, that's where the setup work begins. I personally prefer adjusting the ARBs if you struggle with stability on corner entry or exit before adjust differential or engine braking

 

I must have driven the BMW M4 gt3 to hard to ight then had a race at sebring tonight and managed to spin out while trail braking slightly at around 70kph in 2nd gear at the tight right hander just after the bridge near the beginning of the lap. Was a bit surprised as could not do it anywhere else, seemed a bit weird, the front just pulled into the corner way too much and the rear could not cope.