Physics discussion thread

Exactly exactly, if the TC does not work as should be then what should we discuss about ? I have reduced the engine brake reduce the clutches increase the throttle dead zone the issue stands I have to leave the car slide over the curve and at the time that level the corner to start push . Nope you are pushing at the apex not at the level .
What ever to do, any settings that even at steam found about physics and car settings I have try I never felt that I have “lock” the car at a slow turn .A GT3 class car ..never felt it.

 

AI physics are my 3rd priority (collisions > tire bite > Ai physics)
AI decision making process is quite refined, in comparision.

Why not just change AMS2’s throttle sensitivity instead?
By the way, in AMS2, traction control is a big silent lap-time killer — it’s far too intrusive (but here, we have options, and I always try to drive a car with TC=0 )

 

I feel the GT4 probably should have another look, like the GT3's did... That Ginetta is fun, but quite (power)slidey for sure.

As for TC = 0, yeah, maybe single lap pace, but fast player use TC on races very often, if nothing else, but to get some control of tire temps. Who knows, Baldwin might not had ended with spin in the end if he had used TC

 

I have change the throttle sensitivity in a significant level and if have any advice or anyone any guide how to control reduce that feeling is more that welcome , because the game deserves to be involved with

I follow James almost everywhere because I like the way he communicates

As for driving the GT3 car at TC 0 and stay on track you should brake to early or to hard spontaneously and leave the car to slide . Is good for a qualify lap but for a race ?! I believe that even Max can’t Maintenance that ….

 

Yes yes you are right my bad I am new and at the learning process I am sorry for the inconvenience

 

And these are the exact same changes you would make to a real race car for that track, so the sim can't be too bad

 

Powersliding, that's one way to describe it. And floating, too. That sounds familiar, and that's precisely why, for me and many others out there, the physics of AMS 2 are broken. It's fun, but it's not realistic. And just like my friend Peykan already mentioned, the driving experience still disappoints me to this day. Unfortunately, his opinion was simply deleted, even though this is about physics. Maybe you believe James Baldwin, but I'm afraid it won't make a difference.

 

Exactly sir! It’s the sim that better gives me feedback / correlation for the setup changes I do, which leads me to the same conclusion as yours.

 

I’ve just given it a whirl , and I actually think it’s a lot closer to how it was irl than previous iterations.
You have to be gentle with the front tire, not put in too much angle to early , it’s skinny tires are easily overwhelmed if asked to do too much of one thing at a time .
With some practice to get used to it , it’s a lot of fun and more challenging than just controlling throttle oversteer like previous .
It will push understeer on exit too if you apply too much power and lighten the front end too early. .
You got to be a little more calculated with it.
But watching onboard footage it seems to match up well, it is understeery, and though it may not be as enjoyable to you , and maybe there is some default setup improvements to be had , I think it’s a more true representation .

And it goes without saying the recreation vintage tires on this are probably still an improvement on period tire.

 

Yeah I did not really play with the suspension setting and can't recall now what settings i did change, they were only very minor though.

 

You are just repeating the same thing over and over again without pointing out anything, that's why people are annoyed by it

So Baldwin turned TC off, then claims how well you can slide in AMS2 WITH TCS OFF, but in a 20 minute race against beginners wore his tires down way more than he should, overheated his tires above 100°C and in the end spun out multiple times because of his way of driving and his times weren't even better than the beginners. What exactly is the point then?

Again, AMS2 allows using a bit of slip angle. But this comes at costs of tire wear, overheating and in general losing time compared to clean driving. Slip Angle does not instakill your car like it does in LMU or iRacing, just like real racecars don't usally fly off instantly the moment your rear steps out. You may like this or not. And of course some cars might need some more minor adjustments.

But just please record how you can do a race in let's say the Vantage GT3 in Sub 1:17 Pace around Mosport with Slides, No proper Trailbraking and abusing Slip Angle. Steam has inbuild record features, every graphicscard has inbuild record features, go for it. I want to see your driving, how you pull of slides and be fast and consistent with it

 

I can't really disagree with Baldwin with his opinion on the the Ginetta drives, it's one of the GT4 that really has that powersliding style of handling, always has been like that, even when you don't have TC off. No idea how it's IRL though or is it very unrealistic for that car as Baldwin says.

I do think the GT3's are in better state than the GT4, which are a bit mixed back, some still have that lose rear on corner entry trait that got ironed out from the GT3's in the September update already. The GT3's, at least on default setup tend to handle quite well IMO, though they do still have some of that on throttle rotation left (for me, that doesn't mean same slidey or floaty, I actually enjoy it myself).

There is always things that could be improved as always, for example I think there probably should be more peak grip, but sharper drop of + a bit smaller allowed slip angles but also more ability to regain that grip, especially slower speeds if you lose it (I think what @Joaquim Pereira wrote in his previous comment is at least partially same what I'm thinking here). Now it's less slidey than it was before with the GT3's, but to me, it seems there is this platey of high grip that allows some power sliding and the tires can also take it (good example is to actually increase the number of clutches on the diff and really abuse the on-power rotation from rear with some TC aiding you, the tires can take that for a long time on GT3 and on the LMDh).

ps. I try to avoid comparisons, but one thing what I personally enjoyed when I was trying out ACE, was that tires on the car (I think it was Porsche Cup) had higher peak grip and sharper drop-off, but also much easier to regain that grip if you lost in slower corners, it just cost you time and didn't make you do some 180 or more. (as overal package, ACE still has long long way to go though..)

 

I don't recognize the sim, but those physics are clearly simcade! Just look at the driver inputs when the car understeers - the driver often simply adds more steering lock and gets the car to turn in even more! That's sooo unrealistic!

...




On a more serious note, it's been a few days (2 weeks?) since I last tried the F-Junior (then in the beta), and based on that I still think there's something wrong with it. Not necessarily something that needs a huge change, but the car doesn't quite communicate what it's doing in terms of going in and out of understeer in a way that makes sense to me.

One thing I wanted to mention with regards to the video: While I don't know what the grip state of the track was like that day, it does look like it might have been a relatively cold day. Yet what I see matches my own experience in AMS2 more closely on a track that has decent temperature (~40°C). But to be fair I also don't know how warm or cold the tires of the car in the video were at the time it was recorded, so there's quite a few unknown variables in play.

Either way, I'd like to give my +1 to Reiza having a closer look at the car; and if they don't find anything wrong with it, at least make sure the AI is playing by the same rules - because, as I posted in the AI report thread a short while ago, the F-Junior AI must have not gotten the memo about the updated physics/setup yet... At least for some tracks.

 

Agree, the car feels pretty authentic to me in terms of understeer and oversteer and how you can modify that balance in the garage, but there are limited certain situations of stronger combination longitudinal and latitudinal forces, especially braking and turning, when the steering and tires don't respond as expected (IMO).

 

Looking at Ginetta G55/GT4 footage I think the ingame version pretty much nails the behaviour. Very loose on the rear on turn in and it does the exact same rotation on throttle that people claim is unrealsitic

Just look how this guys manages to tame that car while it constantly wants to drive sideways

 

So is the consensus here that Baldwin is talking nonsense? I genuinely try to follow this stuff as much as I can to learn for myself, but picking and choosing which parties to believe is endlessly confusing/frustrating.

It's impossible for me to tell if his opinion is being pushed aside due to it be objectively incorrect or if it stems from sour grapes. I have no intention of discounting anyone's opinion here, but the guy does seem to have some credibility in this space (at least as far as I've seen across those who are willing to upload AMS2 content). Nothing anyone here (or a YouTuber) says will change the amount of fun I've had and will continue to have in the game, but the endless back and forth has always left me curious.

 

IRL racers are the only people whose opinions I tend to take seriously when it comes to simulators. But I was a little surprised when JB turned off both ABS and TC when he jumped into that GT4, considering that he's a GT3 driver you would think he would aim towards emulating his IRL preferences and I'm not aware of any GT3 drivers who habitually drive without the assists. It seems that his jaunts into AMS2 have always been a little flawed for one reason or another and I don't quite understand why, so I'm trying to reserve judgment. Overall, I was perplexed and I don't understand what his angle is - unless he's deliberately trying to upset the AMS2 crowd whilst playing dumb or something.

We're all a bit prone to confirmation bias, those of us who prefer XYZ are always going to look for reasons to support XYZ and oppose ABC even if we're aware of this bias. AMS2 tops my list because out all of the racing sims I own it has the best balance of positives vs negatives. And I have very little interest in racing GT3, so perhaps I just simply don't care enough about their supposed quirks to notice because I would have to spend more time in them to get them right on the limit.

 

I can't tell that much of a difference with the GT3's. To me there has always been a whiplash effect with their handling. You turn the wheel then there is a little bit of a delay and then here comes the rear end slinging around. I can really feel it at Bathurst from The Cutting to Forrest Elbow. With those quick lefts and rights I have to anticipate how much earlier than normal I have to turn the wheel to allow for the slide and the rear end coming around. The Nordschleife is the same way.

 

If the game offers the option to drive without assists, I'm not sure I'd agree that driving without them constitutes a flawed approach. Having seen the whole video, he genuinely seems to be having a wonderful time and yet the entirety of the focus here is that he is dumping on AMS2 for getting it wrong (in a video that is clearly intended to focus on trying to do a smurf run in LFM). After watching it, I would have assumed more people would be upset about LFM only banning his smurf account when he is publicly violating the terms of the service.

Admittedly, I am probably the anomaly here as I enjoy seeing AMS 2 content from anyone willing to upload it, regardless of whatever conclusions they reach on being slidey or realistic.