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Really not a fan of this new engine protection

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by GrimDad, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Yep, following these exact steps and settings, I get the problem, too. There is a bug in the clutch programming for those cars.
     
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  2. Jan Mikuž

    Jan Mikuž Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Just tried the V12 for the first time in the last couple of months and i notice it won't let me downshift as before (whenever i wanted). Is this car's downshifting still bugged or is this the notorious downshift protection i'm experiencing ?

    For instance @Montreal Historic before the last chicane (wall of champions) i would always quickly downshift to 5th, but when i want to do it now, it won't let me. And there are also numerous other places where it just doesn't accept my downshifts. If it's indeed downshift protection that's in play here, it does feel odd that it's forcing me into such low rpm before i can downshift.
    I find i need to trailbrake more and often downshift while already mid turn (Velopark 1st chicane for instance).

    ...Tried Metalmoro immediately afterwards and no problems there - downshifts any time i want, only 1st gear has got a slight limitation....

    I don't know, the limitation feels very aggressive to me in the V12, although it does feel like it further improves the driving/racing realism itself. Which is a great thing.
    Will just need to learn to downshift properly in the V12, i guess. The formula itself is spectacular. :)

    Thanks
     
  3. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Just tested the V12 and it allows downshifting even when the next gear engaged results in the engine already being in the flashing red zone. That suggests no engine protection to me.
     
  4. Jan Mikuž

    Jan Mikuž Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Strange. It wouldn't in my case. Will try again later today.
     
  5. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    Someone figure it out already because I get panicky when I think the FV12 has been ruined by a patch! :D
     
  6. Jan Mikuž

    Jan Mikuž Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Tried it again and it definitely requires you to drop the rpm lower than it did in SCE...No question about it.
    Ok, so ''engine protection'' isn't the correct term then...is it simply accurate gearbox simulation then ?

    1st chicane at Velopark no way you can go 4th,3rd with two immediate clicks and then turn in (the way it was possible in SCE). It actually requires you to lower the rpm into the range where the downshift is accepted. At the end of the backstraight i also can't go 4th, 3rd, 2nd as fast as i could before.
    2nd being the 'issue' here, which has an even lower threshold for downshifts than 3rd or 4th.
    I kept finding myself downshifting, but nothing was happening, because my rpm was too high...
    I've checked each gear's downshift threshold now.

    This will take some getting used to, which i don't have problems with actually.
    It's does feel quite restrictive at first, but i guess it's the way it's supposed to work.
    I have no adequate knowledge to object or argue against this. :)
     
  7. Conor Duffy

    Conor Duffy New Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree that it's too aggressive in the v12.
    That car has the rev limiter set at 17000. Yet downshifts
     
  8. Pudu

    Pudu Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, in AMS it prevents downshifting into 5th above 17000 (around 275kph) whereas SCE allows you to totally over rev the engine shifting down should you wish to.
     
  9. Conor Duffy

    Conor Duffy New Member Reiza Backer

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    I agree it is way too restrictive in the v12.
    That car has a rev limit if 17000 and downshift are only allowed into revs of 12-13000. This means having to shift on the apex if corners which bad driving practice. The system shouldn't limit correct driving technique.
    I'm not sure why 17000 is a safe rev limit when accelerating but when breaking it needs to be so much lower.

    The way I feel it should be implemented is, using this car as an example, with a rev limit if 17000, the downshift limit should be the same or at least 16-16500. This would allow shifting when needed but also protect the engine to the same extent as the rev limiter.
     
  10. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    And as I said, I am able to downshift at will when the resulting rpm is 17,000/flashing red!!
     
  11. Pudu

    Pudu Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, I can't replicate this problem either. I have tried early access and beta, with auto blip on/off, auto lift on/off, auto clutch on/off. AMS protects the engine by liming downshifts at the maximum of the rev limiter, whereas SCE lets you shift whenever - but I'm not getting hamstrung by 12000rpm limits. Mine will downshift at the rev limit of 17000 under any circumstance I've tested.

    I wonder what is causing this for some. There is some strange voodoo going on -> the issue I have with intial throttle response from neutral happens only sometimes on the Stock Cars which seems totally bizarre to me.
     
  12. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    Okay so we definitely can't drive Montreal Historic's final chicane like we used to anymore (or how Niels did it in his Talk and Drive). Drive that corner perfectly and you end up with the protection stopping you as you enter the corner and you need to stay off the throttle until mid corner to get the downshift or just tolerate using 6th.

    That bums me out because it definitely doesn't feel like you're downshifting into excessive revs there but rather right into the optimal range for the gear. Even perfect in the old system you wouldn't be at upshift range for a few seconds after leaving the chicane so....
     
  13. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    Nevermind, we were revving the snot out of the engine in the past and it was letting us drive that corner rather easily. Downshifts happen pretty much on the money if you scrutinize the replays carefully. The problem is simply its pretty damned hard to slow down with brakes only in time for that last chicane, at least with that stab/turn-in/downshift pattern. In the past at Montreal Historic's final chicane we've been using engine compression to help us because in order to make the corner work the brakes alone don't seem to slow you down enough with that stabbing thing.

    I just did a few laps there and its much harder to get optimal revs for downshifting while slowing for the corner and finding the line. Its pretty busy in the fastest corner on that track now because you can't downshift at turn in, you either do it right in the middle of the corner or you don't do it at all. I found myself messing up a lot trying to get it right so its definitely harder and I suppose that's realistic.

    What it does mean though is that whomever gets it right gains a free third to half second on the lap or something like that because that's what I gained when I nailed it with this new engine protection. So be careful what you ask for because with realism you may find yourself slower. XD
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    How is the "realism" only affecting certain people? You seem to be ignoring the fact that it isn't part of the design of the game (obviously, because that would be stupid to put a 12,000 rpm limiter in these cars), but a glitch that is affecting just some people. Unlike the dead throttle problem discussed above that is replicable by all.
     
  15. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    I'm not ignoring anything. I'm discussing the behavior of the vehicle with the engine protection in a specific case that was mentioned -> Montreal Historic final chicane.

    It is true that we cannot downshift into 5th easily anymore. It turns out in the past we were simply over revving the engine.

    I've made no conclusions about any other regime but I have personally experienced no issues in downshifting to other gears but that's not conclusive. All I can say is that driving Montreal Historic at any other corner is unaffected for me and I tend to think I'm getting the vehicle close-ish to the limits. I will try Velopark later (not somewhere I usually drive Formula cars) and see if I encounter similar issues.
     
  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I can shift into 5th any time I want right up to the maximum rpm limit. Same with every other gear. On every track. So where is the problem? It's not with the well-designed and welcome (because it's realistic) engine protection system. There is some glitch with the V12s on some people's (like yours) installations. I am sure it will get fixed, but you should report it to the official thread anyway.

    I won't repeat this exact same thing a third time, so if you don't get it, carry on talking to yourself or others. The point of these forums is for us to help each other figure out what is a feature versus a bug versus a glitch. Sometimes it very hard to figure-out and usually impossible without corroboration from others. Good luck.
     
  17. Jan Mikuž

    Jan Mikuž Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Alright, so it's a known glitch. Thanks for letting us know. :)
     
  18. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    You know it behooves you on a forum intended to help people (apparently) to try and not be a prick and actually listen to what I'm saying.

    With respect to issues mentioned above by someone else that I replied to about driving Montreal Historic's final chicane and how the engine protection impacts the new driving experience it is my conclusion that it is now harder to drive that corner because of where the gearing works out at the speeds at corner entry with the default set up.

    Initially I thought maybe there was a bit of an excess in the protection preventing a healthy downshift but examination of the replays has shown that in fact the protection works fine, downshifting me into 5th at 17k RPM ie. the limiter meaning as high as I should be allowed. Instead the issue (a driver's issue, not a software one) when reaching the corner is that its difficult to get the downshift right because corner entry is at a speed higher than the maximum speed you can downshift into 5th at (by the look of things well above that 275 KPH or something speed).

    There is no glitch in this specific case. Now perhaps I simply can drive this corner faster than you and I get tripped up by the engine protection and you don't so downshifts are not an issue for you there but I've determined that in this specific example its not a glitch, in my view.

    Feel free to work out with others where there may be a glitch. Yeesh!
     
  19. AliceB

    AliceB New Member

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    Having the same issue on the V-12s :(
     
  20. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Sorry, the standard rev limiter while you are in a gear is not the engine protection issue being discussed here. The "issue" is if downshifts are not permitted under normal circumstances. If all you are concerned about is a change to a default gear ratio that you can solve in 5 seconds in the garage....!?!?!?!
     

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