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"Requires skill" <> "Hard to drive"

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Professionalsimracing.com, Sep 25, 2016.

  1. Professionalsimracing.com

    Professionalsimracing.com Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I ignore a lot of nonsense on the internet, believe me, but lately I have seen a number of videos with a lot of viewers claiming that this car or that car is hard to drive without any type of context.

    For example, I don't consider the Vintage cars to be hard to drive whatsoever and, to the contrary, it takes quite a bit of effort and concentration to push them to their limits. But hard to drive. Not at all!

    Anyway, like I said, I ignore a lot of nonsense (you have to or you just get negative), but I sincerely think it is a disservice to classify something as "hard to drive" when it's just not. Disservice may seem like a strong word but I don't think it is when you consider the lost opportunity to instead motivate drivers to develop their skills to enjoy one of the most amazing driving experiences available in all of sim racing.

    For example, I think instead of "hard to drive" people should say "one of the best reasons to develop your skills" or "one of the best cars available for experienced drivers" or something like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
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  2. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Active Member Reiza Backer

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    People just have different views on what is hard and what is not... :rolleyes:
     
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  3. GrimSuper

    GrimSuper Member Reiza Backer

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    I prefer the term "Challenging" :)
     
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  4. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    In my experience, when people say "hard to drive" they either mean "hard to handle" or "hard to drive consistently fast". It's just a short and easy phrase to use. Anybody can take anything around any track if they are going slowly.
     
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  5. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I think people mean it is "Hard to drive" when they say it is "hard to drive"
    No more context needed, they drive the car and find it is hard to drive.
    A car can be hard to drive and you still can go fast.

     
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  6. GrimSuper

    GrimSuper Member Reiza Backer

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    It's hard to drive a car that's broke. :D
     
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  7. Professionalsimracing.com

    Professionalsimracing.com Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Let me try it a different way. If a car is not hard to drive then it is not hard to drive. Can we agree on that?

    And if a car is not hard to drive then people should not call the car hard to drive. No?

    And if people believe a car is hard to drive because someone with a microphone says so then they may avoid it. No?

    It just so happens that 60s F1 (long ago in another sim) was the reason I decided to study vehicle dynamics. Not because it was hard to drive but because I was curious to see if there was more that I could get out of the vehicle.

    What if another who the 60s F1 could inspire to learn decides to avoid it because of something that is untrue?

    A vehicle cannot be hard to drive just because it's hard to drive for one person.

    I am a mid pack racer with average talent who almost always winds up in the top half if I prepare more than average and the bottom half if I prepare less than average.

    If I can drive these cars then anyone can. A vehicle is not hard to drive because you have no skills or knowledge. You don't need talent. Just skills and knowledge.. Otherwise you shouldn't be commenting on whether a car is hard to drive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  8. GrimSuper

    GrimSuper Member Reiza Backer

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    Anyone remember this?
     
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  9. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Active Member Reiza Backer

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    No, we can't agree on that. A car may be hard to drive for one person, but not to the other.
    Yes, they should if it's hard for them.
    No. They should have their own opinion and drive it if they like the car.
    Then that person has no opinion on his own and should grow up.
    A vehicle is hard to drive for that one person, that's it.
    If you can good for you. I can drive a V8SC like a Copa de Marcas, does not mean others can do it too (unfortunately).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  10. FeltHat

    FeltHat Active Member Reiza Backer

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    what is the point of this thread again?

    dont make rules and ways around expression of subjective opinion.

    If i feel x car is hard to drive, i say "x car is hard to drive". If banana is yellow, i say "banana is yellow". Makes sense aye?
     
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  11. Scraper

    Scraper Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Yes, but a banana is really hard to drive.
     
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  12. Professionalsimracing.com

    Professionalsimracing.com Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Never mind, guys. Enough is enough. I believe I've made myself clear. One thing I'll leave you to consider as I exit this thread is how no one feels that rules should apply when someone presents a subjective opinion as fact but that rules should apply to he who points this out :rolleyes:
     
  13. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    Are you just sh*tposting? :D
    When someone says "This car is hard to drive" they do mean "This car is hard to drive for me". I never thought that would be a point of discussion?

    Example:
    If I say "GT3 cars are hard to drive" - and I do - that means "I cannot for the life of me get consistent laptimes with these things because the required driving style does not match my unprecise steering inputs and I'm not very good with setups although I'm well aware that there are a myriad of people who can lap consistently several seconds faster than me and I would be able to do that too if I'd just practice more but I'm not that much interested in driving GT3s which is why I'm not very good with them in the first place." <- That's just too f*cking long.
     
  14. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I say Potato you say Potato!

    Undoubtedly one of the strangest threads I've ever read on a Sim Racing forum...and I've read a lot!
     
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  15. GrimSuper

    GrimSuper Member Reiza Backer

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    I say potarto ;)
     
  16. CCKaren

    CCKaren Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Are potatoes easier to drive than bananas though?

    maxresdefault.jpg cruise-along-the-banana-car-o.jpg
     
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  17. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

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    Do you really believe that most people view it that way? You can theorize that this is a way to argue it or view it but I don't think most people when they judge these things and air an opinion are speaking as if its entirely subjective.
     
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  18. Professionalsimracing.com

    Professionalsimracing.com Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Care to elaborate?
     
  19. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member Reiza Backer

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    I think it's pretty self explanatory :)
     
  20. Professionalsimracing.com

    Professionalsimracing.com Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Well for anyone having trouble following along I'll simplify...

    It seems that the main question at hand is what do people mean when they say something is hard to drive?

    Answers offered in this thread:
    • People mean that it is hard to handle (drive)
    • People mean that it is hard to drive for them
    • People mean that it is hard to drive consistently fast
    • Challenging is a better term
    I personally disagree that one can infer that people mean that it is hard to drive for them unless they say so. There are two reasons for this...
    1. There are many unskilled drivers out there who think they have skills and therefore assuming that if something is difficult for them to drive then it must be difficult for anyone to drive so if you don't know whether the person has skills then you can't infer that they mean that it is hard to drive for them.
    2. When someone on a video is reviewing a car and saying it is hard to drive but recommending people drive the car anyway because it is fun, they are clearly declaring that the car is hard to drive for the viewer (i.e. anyone watching this video) and not only themselves.
    I also believe that it is inaccurate to infer that someone means that a car is only hard to drive fast unless they specific this. Additionally, if every car is hard to drive fast then there is no point in calling it out for a specific vehicle and therefore by calling it out for a single vehicle (and even more so by not calling it out for all other vehicles) then the implication must be (1) that the person speaking does not believe that all vehicles are hard to drive fast and/or (2) this vehicle is hard to drive at any speed.

    Capiche?

    Anyone have anything constructive to add?
     

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