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Simracing and graphics engines - Raceroom and Unreal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AosudiF1, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. AosudiF1

    AosudiF1 Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Just read about this: Raceroom Racing is probably switching to the Unreal Engine 4 • /r/simracing

    The guys over at Sector3 seem to be moving to a new graphics engine.

    Aside from them doing whatever they want, I truly believe that the only weak point in Reiza's offering right now is the graphics. They look good, but they look a bit dated. I just cannot imagine how amazing Reiza17 would be with the current content, physics, sounds and an up-to-date engine with more convincing graphics.

    Right now, AC excels on that, but the title itself, even if it is generally successful, it really does not follow the path of rFactor, and definitely not Reiza. And RR seems to have a pricing format that many do not care for.

    I am sure it would be quite the undertaking, but I think we would all love a Reiza title looking a bit more spectacular (not that it does not now, but one can dream).

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I'm all for improving graphics, but to me R3E already has done an amazing job with their visuals. I'd prefer they got people working on filling in the large gaps in essential functionality (and had a good think about their horrific pricing model while thy're at it). I think the move to Unreal and DX11 is more a push into potential VR territory.

    On the other hand AMS is probably the most coherent and feature complete sim on the market. Even though the recent graphical improvements were a welcome move away from the garish and cartoonish look of GSC, they've probably run up against the limitations of the graphics engine. Whether they get around the limitations by building features in, or using a different engine, I'd imagine pretty big graphical improvements are in the pipeline once the core of the game is fully refined.
     
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  3. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    We have just to wait for Reiza17 (or AMS2) to see what Reiza guys will give us...at this time I don't care about screens or similar...just curious if the new engine will be something like Unreal one or homemade...
    (I still hope for an arma3 engine simracing title)
     
  4. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

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    We´re playing with a couple of different alternatives atm for the next project. UE4 integration is one of them.
     
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  5. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I think I just did a little wee.
     
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  6. Paul Bennett

    Paul Bennett Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    That should get the hype train fired up :p
     
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  7. ghoults

    ghoults Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Wasn't there also a rumor that the upcoming GTL remake (GTL2?) might be using unreal engine?
     
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  8. Tommi

    Tommi Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks for the good news, Renato.
    I've been waiting for the official statement about the graphics engine for the next title.
    I'll wait for the time to come. :)
     
  9. Greyn

    Greyn New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I've long had mixed feelings when it comes to graphics.

    Although I do understand the necessity of great visuals in the sense of attracting players and bringing something new, they're quite a way down the 'Things that are Important' list for me.

    Between stylised graphics and lighting engines that aren't yet problem-free, frameworks like isiMotor have had the huge positive of clarity. I appreciate being able to see where I'm going and not alone in this, there have been too many times in some visually splendid console and PC games that I haven't been able to find the path ahead. My eyesight's not always fantastic these days but in the real world I can still see something even on the darkest night!

    Comfort at the wheel is related to my enjoyment then. I'll always look out for the Next Big Thing when it comes to graphics and other developments, but will also appreciate having titles like Automobilista and rFactor 2 alongside my older sims and the 'better looking' games.

    It's all good though!
     
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  10. xnorb

    xnorb Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    As long as Reiza2017 will not be plagued with lensflare, cinematic contrast, color tinting and similar nonsense just to appeal the "woah, look how awesome that looks!" crowd and Reiza sticks to their credo of "Let's just make it look like it actually looks" i'm all fine with any engine.

    Overall i will always sacrifice graphics for performance and it's of no use for me to have a nice looking game if i drop below 30 FPS approaching T1...
     
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  11. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    I have mixed feelings to ne honest...
    I really love how automobilista looks, as stated before I can see where I am going and and I have a clear vision while racing (I left Assetto Corsa due to this, it looks good for screens but not for racing). At the same time I missed some effects, like shadows on cockpit or dirt on cars etc etc, not a real problem...but some of them will help for immersion...
    As far I know the UE4 has proven to be good, but I will suggest ArmA 3 engine too (day/night, rain, wind, etc etc)...
     
  12. tpw

    tpw Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    @DaVeX, the Arma series has been my absolute favourite many years. As a military sandbox and modders playground nothing else comes close. Under the right conditions the Real Virtuality engine can indeed produce very convincing and not "over the top" Hollywood style environments and lighting. However I don't really think it's the right tool for the job of a racing sim: RV is famously underoptimised and doesn't play with multiple cores properly; it can't do deferred style lighting/shadowing so is limited to shadows from a single light source; it does weather but in a fairly unconvincing way etc etc.
     
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  13. DaVeX

    DaVeX AMSUnofficial Staff AMS2 Club Member

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    Hum...you right, but I read Bohemia guys are searching for something different from militaria to work...so I hoped for a partnership between Reiza and Bohemia lol.
    On the serious note, I hope the new engine will have the right fidelity (without need to be too heavy) and scalable...
     
  14. Greyn

    Greyn New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    If you mean it in the usual way, scalability is a certainty. It's the PC!

    Fidelity and load? Well that's where the devs will weave their code, isn't it?! Thankfully, we usually get a good set of options and ways to tweak things in sims too – something I need as my systems are always at least a few years behind 'current' hardware! :D

    Looking ahead, I'm intrigued by the confirmation that Reiza and Sector3 are looking at their options. Both companies have made some incredible advances over the last few years and I can only look forward to what their graphics artists can produce with a potentially better set of tools in the box.
     
  15. Synthbent715

    Synthbent715 New Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It doesn't matter how fancy they make the game look, if they continue to refuse to add proper multi monitor support I can unfortunately never enjoy it. It's a shame because I spent many long hours in Race 07 and GTR2 and I absolutely love the way they do their physics and sounds. I would play R3E quite a bit if I didn't have to suffer through the fish-eye. First world problems I know, but it really does bug me. I personally think Reiza has done an amazing job with the tools they're given. Through the years I have learned that I much prefer a nice clean smooth crisp look over lots of flashy effects and post processing. To me, no other sim looks better than AMS at evening. Beautiful colors and nice crisp look. I think R3E looks great the way it is, I really wish they'd focus on multi-view if they indeed switch to UE, however I do realize I am in the minority. Many attempts have been made by me to ask Sector 3 if they plan on adding it through twitter, facebook, email, etc. and they absolutely ignore me, which can only mean one thing.
     
  16. Bkim

    Bkim Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It's all subjective. For me graphics aren't important. DX9 is good enough for me. I am more focussed on the features like pitstops, physics, mechanical damage. Instead of better visual representation i would like to see a better mechanical failures implementation. So far in every racesim i can abuse the springs by ramming the sausages in kerbs. Springs and or the whole technical mechanics behind it won't brake. Same for brakes. None of the sims let me replace brake pads as they do not wear out. Going for tires: tire set rules would be very nice. Or what about having a "bad" set of tires. When watching live streams of online playing, people revs their engines like crazy. No one seems to blow up their engine.
    But...once on track all my wishes are flying out of the window and i only care about one thing: the upcoming corner and which line to race it to gain advantage over my opponents. And AMS is excellent in providing a damn good feel on just doing that!
     
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  17. xnorb

    xnorb Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Everything Arma3 can do you can also do in UE.
    But Epic asks for a 25% royalty once your revenue excells 50.000$...
    On the other side i wasn't able to find anything about licensing the RV4 engine.
    (And for what i know they struggle with optimization a lot)

    I mean we're only talking graphics here.
    * Physics and FFB are fine the way they are in AMS.
    * 3D Animations and about all features that we ask for can be handled by isiMotor
    * AI behavior the way we want isn't available out of the box in any engine
    So the only thing Reiza would have to do is to somehow get gMotor up to date.
     
  18. Kevin Peat

    Kevin Peat Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I guess one very good reason to go with something like UE4 is to get VR support provided rather than having to write it yourself. It will be expensive (in equipment and time) for Reiza (and all the other developers) to buy all the headsets, develop and test the code needed. Maybe better just to farm a lot of that out to the engine developers.

    I'm guessing that things like animated pit-crew, marshalls and environments even would also be easier in UE as creating that is bread and butter there.
     
  19. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I used UE4 as an example in ISI forums and almost got stoned to death (ok, kidding) :D because it's not so simple as UE4 also is a "physics engine"
    To me I'd be happy if ISI had a partnership with Reiza or Sector 3 or both and remade rF2 or a new sim with graphics like P Cars and totally build in DX12 with maybe some easier way to mod, especially physics -_-". Official content (especially tracks) that could be sold in same model as Race Room right now if that means they'll keep coming and the sim getting more updates in a better pace. Seeing how studios are doing separately I think this would be a better alternative than what they are doing atm. And then everyone would be happy (or almost everyone).
    This should have happened already. We like it or not graphics is like sex: it sells.
    And with Forza on PC a strong sim racing name will be needed... just my 2 cents...
     
  20. Kevin Peat

    Kevin Peat Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    A full version of Forza on PC is some years off (if at all) and I suppose could be more competition for PCars2 and AC2 than for products from ISI and Reiza.

    I think Reiza are doing great as they are. Given ISI's apparent lack of a plan for developing RF2 (see RD interview) I am not too sure what they could bring to the party. By the time Reiza's new sim comes out I think RF2 will be looking pretty tired so the new sim could easily become the goto for a lot of people in the simracing space.
     

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