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Simracing and graphics engines - Raceroom and Unreal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AosudiF1, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    And that applies to some businesses too; many have only recently moved to Win7 and they aren't in any hurry to do it again. That may affect how soon MS can actually force OS migration.
     
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  2. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Bro how many of the big gaming devs are making exclusive DX12 games already?
     
  3. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Area 51 local Reiza Backer

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    I think it would be a mistake to make a exciting game engine upgrade and think that existing customers are what should be the main concern ? New players (customers) should be the main target . That is where the money will be coming from . Existing players already have and love the game and S397 need some new player income .
    Have a look at Steam and see what the main OS is . Win10 has the market share among gamers in general , im sure among Racing Sims it would be less but moving forward the virus that is Win10 will take hold throughout all systems . Not saying Directx 12 is where they should be looking but just looking at facts .
    Personally i just want what gives best performance and visuals and is able to maintain the same great feel that we have right now .
     
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  4. David Wright

    David Wright Active Member Reiza Backer

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    While I agree S397 should be looking to attract new customers to rF2, they can't produce an update which would break the game for a significant minority of existing users. Kunos' Stefano has talked about this aspect limiting possible updates to AC in his development blogs. While it might be an interesting discussion, I'm not sure it would have much point since S397 have already stated they will be producing a DX11 graphics engine for rF2.

    Reiza on the other hand will be producing a new product and hence are free to opt for DX12. Indeed they have said this is their plan.
     
  5. Big_Mama

    Big_Mama Ben Suttor Reiza Backer

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    Why not drop DX12 altogether and go for Vulkan instead? There would be no Win 10 requirement and Reiza would keep their doors open for porting future games to other platforms
     
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  6. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    The reason I've seen given is that it's not a mature graphics API at this point.
     
  7. Big_Mama

    Big_Mama Ben Suttor Reiza Backer

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    Hm, what makes you say this? I think the only thing that isn't mature yet are the drivers, and some rushed Vulkan ports let to a wrong impression imho. Afaik Dx12 an Vulkan are more similar than Dx12 to Dx11 or Vulkan to Opengl. Both are more complicated for developers and both can lead to a better performance when optimized. But at the end Vulkan is the more open API with lesser restrictions and more possibilities.

    Well I don't know if they are going to write their own engine or use an existing one, but I think whatever they decide it will have an effect on years to come and more possibilities for the future is always a good thing. Just have a look how long that rF1 stuff lasted :p

    Btw, is it known if Reiza 17 is going to use ISI physics again?
     
  8. Dann Murillo

    Dann Murillo League Organizer: onlinesimracing.net Reiza Backer

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    Renato eluded to it here:
    Reiza 17. What is it?
     
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  9. Bkim

    Bkim Member Reiza Backer

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    Pcars is the best looking race game i own and also has the worst gameplay...its **** deluxe.
    Like AMS i prefer less graphics but a very solid, rich and indepth racing experience. And i do hope Reiza will hold on to their amazing physics, rich features and dedicated racing simulation instead of going commercial with fancy graphics....i have enough of fancy graphics games with shallow arcade gameplay.
    Keep indepth simulation alive as graphics will always live
     
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  10. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    SMS's focus was clearly on pushing graphics, weather, and general racing-environment aspects with car-handling and FFB being secondary. Their main concern was appealing to the mass-market using game-pads - not advanced Sim hardware. That became more clear to some of us later in the development process after having pressed for deeper Sim features.

    Having been involved in the WMD community during Pcars development, I believe there was a desire by some on the dev team to make Pcars reach to more of the hardcore-Sim players but, in the end, the mass-market approach won out. It didn't help that some of the feedback from Pro race drivers proclaimed all racing simulations before Pcars to be pure rubbish. Ignoring the success of Sim-racing history seems like a poor practice to me but, the unfortunate financial aspect is also hard to ignore.

    From what I've heard about Pcars2 development, the dev's are pushing further into Sim territory with the handling and FFB this go-around but, we'll see if that bears fruit in time. Hopefully, such efforts serve to move the ball forward in the direction of having more of the best aspects of Racing Games and Sim's combined.

    AMS and rF2 with updated graphics and sounds may be "as good as it gets" for some of us but, efforts like PC1/PC2 show us what is possible in other areas. It's only natural that some of us want to have the best of both worlds, it just hasn't materialized quite yet.

    As someone who has played Pcars in VR extensively during its development, I can 100% say that things like track debris kicked up by leading cars, sun flare, and weather effects can be incredibly immersive. These things can be convincing enough that you may find yourself raising your hand to block debris, reaching for your sunglasses, or trying to wipe the rain from your visor. That moment is what is referred to as achieving "presence". Having that type of experience combined with convincing handling and FFB is what we all want - whether we are willing to admit it or not. :)
     
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  11. David Dominguez

    David Dominguez Member Reiza Backer

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    But that's exactly what they say everytime when they are talking about their new game... meanwhile Rene Rast last video shows again quite a lot of input lag.
     
  12. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Of course, you're not wrong about their marketing. I'm just going by some reports from those having played various builds, from those that play a lot of "Sims". The proof is in the pudding so we'll see how it shapes up in the end but, I heard enough positive info that I think there may be a glimmer of hope that Pc2 brings some decent improvements over Pc1.
     
  13. David Wright

    David Wright Active Member Reiza Backer

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    People seem obsessed by judging input lag from the movement of the on-screen wheel. This could simply be animation lag. His video when he was using AC showed similar "lag".

     
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  14. Bkim

    Bkim Member Reiza Backer

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    Ian Bell said that since they developed a new feel for the joypad he actually has put away the wheel completely...that does not sound good to me :(
     
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  15. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I get that but, it seems an obvious attempt to reassure the biggest market segment (by far) for the Pcars franchise and they are pad-users; Pcars I'm told, had terrible pad control. I'm more interested in what fellow Sim-racers have to say about how the title plays than any developers or even, the pro-drivers.

    The bottom line is, we won't know what Pcars2 is like until we try it for ourselves. I think it will end up being a mixed bag with some cars being pretty good while others just feel wrong. I'm fine with being proven wrong though, and I hope SMS pull off a nice surprise for Sim-racers but, the skepticism is totally understandable given the results of Pcars1.
     
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  16. Bkim

    Bkim Member Reiza Backer

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    Peeps, i saw Pcars 2 footage on You Tube. My very first thought after 1 minute of the "Mercedes AMG GT3 in cockpit view" is "Shift 3"...:rolleyes:
     
  17. mmaruda

    mmaruda Member Reiza Backer

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    I'm hyped for this. The graphics and their new dynamic track and tire flex are really impressive. I have also heard that they made the FFB very simple to set up and that the physics are quite good so far and are working on the AI (the three major pains in CARS 1). If it's true or not, it's another story. But what actually makes me excited here is that SMS are trying to make product with features not seen before in a sim. They are ambitious which is the exact opposite to certain other developers who cannot be bothered to include stuff vital for the terms "racing" or "simulator", because they make a ton of money adding more beetles to the game.

    Obviously we'll see how things look on release, but I think people are in the wrong already judging this because CARS1 was a disappointment. They managed to make a solid base here and have something to build upon. They would be stupid to deliberately repeat the same mistakes.
     
  18. Dean Ogurek

    Dean Ogurek Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    You make some good points but, we have to keep in mind the end goal of SMS; to be a commercial success and why cater to the tiny Sim market(?) Perhaps they intend to conquer all and make everyone happy; that would be great and I wish them success but, it is a monumental task and they are making some very bold claims. Time will tell but, PC1 should have taught us to be weary of most of the marketing.

    I'd love to have a Sim with the content and features that PC2 is including but, history has demonstrated that the "Jack of All Trades - Master of None" applies. SMS is a big team - one on a mission so, who knows for sure but, it's easy to see PC2 as sounding too good to be true so I get both sides of the discussion.

    I'm relying on feedback from people I know inside WMD that tend to value the same Sim characteristics that I do and a few of them have good things to say about PC2 so I'm watching developments with tempered expectations.
     

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