Steering Linearity

just for clarification. If somebody writes XBOX CONTROLLER he should add what type. Best would be in the signature. Then everybody could see what here is talked about.
Because there is a big difference XBox360 vs XBox One vs XBox One Elite vs XBox OEM controllers. Think of that. be a bit more precise

 

I have zero idea how Reiza is using the Madness engine in this area. In PC2, there were completely separate adjustments between controllers and wheels. i.e. some settings did nothing for controllers and some settings did nothing for wheels.

 

So just to be clear guys. The game sets the dor for each car automatically? Hence, I should set dd1 Simucube to 900, re-calibrate in game and go from there?

Thanks

 

It does. Or at least it supposes to. You should see 1:1 wheel movement (compared to the virtual wheel)

But that is not my problem.

As i said, i ve found a strange sensitivity / linearity behaviour: Too much of the steering happens immediately after about the first ~ 25 degrees of rotation in each side (dor) on my wheel. It's gentle, then suddenly a lurch to the side. It just feels strange.

In fact, there are cars (like the evo's) where too much of the steering movement happens after about ~ 25 dor and there are other cars (like the sprintrace car) where too much of the movement happens between 0 and 25 dor. It s like smth is wrong with the sensitivity value.

That's why the feeling is odd for the most cars. I use a 42 sensitivity value and not 50. The thing is that with sensitivity value of 50 this issue is less dominant, but at a different value (like the 42 that i use) this is more noticeable.

 

If the game sets the DOR automatically, why doesn't it tell us what the rotation is for that car? Or does it?

That makes a big difference for the steering lock. I like a 12 - 15 degree steering ratio. I've been doing the math based on 900 DOR. But if each car has a different DOR, then my math is all wrong.

I wish they would use steering ratio in the setup. No math required. 15 degree ratio is 15 degrees no matter what your DOR is.

 

That leads to one of my basic concerns when you play any racing games. The amount of tweaks you have to make to your wheel in both:

1) degrees of wheel rotation (dor)
2) sensitivity (because for me the default value - usually 50 - is usually linked to 900 dor
3) steering lock in setup (what you say as setup steering ratio)

Totally 3 settings. Which are too many, making any game very tricky...

 

You guys are over thinking this.

A sensitivity of 50 is linear, anything else is not. If you are using a wheel you shouldn't be using anything else. If you do change it will make the front wheels turn using a non-linear rate compared to the steering wheel. This is bad and will lead to confusion when driving and changing cars.

Steering lock is the angle through which the front wheels can rotate about the vertical axis. This is set to a default value per car and you should only need to change it under exceptional circumstances. Normally leave this alone. This is actually changing the maximum turning circle of the car!

Different cars have vastly different steering DOR. This is for a number of reasons, but that is the way it is, the DOR per car in game are realistic. Trying to force cars into the same steering range by altering all of the above is going to cause strange problems. The best way of getting to grips with different types of cars is by using the piece of meat between your ears and not using odd settings.

Yes some cars are twitchy and hard to control, that's the challenge and why we are all here.

 

For me all cars are undrivable if i leave the default settings. All. Period. Every game should automatically alter all of those settings depending on your wheel dor.

But this is not happening. At least yet.

 

I agree with everything you're saying but there's no indication in-game that your steering rotation has been changed.

I calibrate my wheel in-game to 900 degrees. I assume it stays that way into car setup. In car setup we see a steering lock, most set at 20.

Well that's not enough for 900 degree rotation if I want a 15 degree steering ratio, I need a 30 steering lock (900 / 2 = 450 / 15 = 30).

If we at least knew what the rotation had been changed to, we would know if the steering lock in the setup is correct (or to our liking). This way we're blind.

If they just had a steering ratio in the setup, rotation wouldn't matter anymore. There would be no need for math. Everybody can leave their rotation alone and just set steering ratio.

 

No, it definitely shouldn't. The steering lock is a car setting for turning circle, nothing to do with your wheel DOR. Linearity should be 50% and not changed, again, nothing to do with DOR. It doesn't make sense to have a non-linear steering rack.

If you are sure you are having handling issues as bad as you say then trying to mask it by fiddling with these settings is not going to work.

 

I remember RF2 used to give the steering angle in the setup and the auto DOR like AMS2.
Now both RF2 and ACC give you the ratio in the setup instead.
Does anyone know the reasoning behind that choice?

 

First of all i m talking about steering sensitivity here. Which - if not set to 50 - is bond to linearity. I “guess” the value 50 is linked to 900 dor, which means that if you turn your wheel 450 degrees (from center to lets say all to the furthest right , which is 1 and 1/4 of the full circle) the car wheel from 0 to lock right will be done in “X” time. But if - for some reasons - i find this too snappy (which for my taste always is) i can lower the sensitivity in order to have X+an extra amount of time, thus making my car feel less snappy.

Not to digress here, there is smth wrong with the sensitivity here, cause some cars (eg evos) turn sharper if you turn your wheel more than 20-25 dor.Other cars do the opposite. I ve seen that if you lower the sensitivity value

You may have not seen it cause you use 50 sensitivity

 

I think you're best off not referring to it as 'Sensitivity', it's better referred to as 'Linearity'.
At 50, the steering is completely linear, and that's how it should be. You turn your steering wheel, and the wheels will turn at the same rate all the way from left to right.

At 'x' (Not 50) linearity your steering will either output more turning, the more you turn.
Or output less the more you turn. Depending which way you go from 50.

900deg, 50 linearity for me on the Superkarts for example is insanely good/realistic. (G29).

 

I'm sorry buddhatree, but I really don't understand why you're trying to calculate something here.

You setup your wheel maximum wheel rotation in the wheel driver / control applet, and then calibrate as you say in the game. However this is the maximum rotation and the actual DOR is set per car.

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. 15 degrees is not a ratio. The steering lock is how much the front wheels can turn and affects the turning radius of the car. If you have 900 DOR and a 20 degree steering lock then the turning radius will be the same as if you had a 450 DOR and a 20 degree steering lock. The only difference would be that you need to turn the wheel half as much to turn the car at the same radius.

The steering lock is changed for the type of track. For a short low speed twisty track you might want to increase the steering lock. For a high speed flowing track maybe decrease. It isn't meant to be changed so you can try and get the same feeling at 450 DOR as you would have at 900 DOR.

 

Indeed.
Pretty sure some of you are confusing steering ratio with steering lock.
Steering lock, is just literally how much your front wheels will turn, in degrees.

Steering ratio is the gearing ratio of your steering rack, how 'quickly' your wheels turn through the 'steering lock' in relation to the steering wheel input. Note that you may think of this as 'Sensitivity' or 'Linearity', but a different ratio does not adjust that, it stays linear.

When you say you want "12 - 15 degree steering ratio", what you mean is 12:1 or 15:1 (Geared). It's technically not measured in degrees, it's a ratio between steering column and steering rack.

 

As TekNeil says the steering sensitivity is the linearity. It is not linked to a specific DOR.

Examples:
The game sets your DOR for a car to 400 deg and the steering lock is 20 deg
With sensitivity / linearity set to 50:
Turning your wheel from 0 to 10 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 0 to 1 deg to the right.
Turning your wheel from 190 to 200 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 19 to 20 deg to the right.

With sensitivity / linearity set to 10:
Turning your wheel from 0 to 10 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 0 to 0.2 deg to the right.
Turning your wheel from 190 to 200 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 17 to 20 deg to the right.

With sensitivity / linearity set to 90:
Turning your wheel from 0 to 10 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 0 to 3 deg to the right.
Turning your wheel from 190 to 200 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 19.8 to 20 deg to the right.

Different DOR...
The game sets your DOR for a car to 800 deg and the steering lock is 20 deg
With sensitivity / linearity set to 50:
Turning your wheel from 0 to 10 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 0 to 0.5 deg to the right.
Turning your wheel from 390 to 400 deg to the right will cause the front wheels to turn from 19.5 to 20 deg to the right.

Does this make sense to you?

 

I'm using the definitions attached below.
Some users are talking about controller linearity/sensitivity.
Other user is talking about car setup steering ratio.
And I was talking about different games offering car setup steering lock and some games offering car setup steering ratio.

 

My apologies. It's not degrees. My point is the same. Just ignore the word degrees in my post.

A 15:1 ratio for a 900 rotation is a 30 steering lock. If I want 12:1 ratio it's 37.5 steering lock.

A 15:1 ratio for 540 rotation is 18 steering lock. Etc....

But 15:1 ratio is still 15:1 no matter what the rotation of your wheel. That's my point.

ACC simply uses steering ratio in the setup. Your wheel rotation can be anything you want because you're only dealing with ratio in the setup. The game does the steering lock for you and you don't have to worry about it.

 

In the past RF2 had something similar to AMS2. But you could change the DOR in the controller menu.

Currently in RF2 you choose a ratio AND a lock in car setup.
For example MP4-13:
"ratio 11.3:1 (fast)" and you get 373° DOR and a 16° lock
"ratio 11.3:1 (tight)" and you get 460° DOR and a 20° lock

"ratio 12.8:1 (medium)" and you get 420° DOR and a 16° lock
"ratio 12.8:1 (tight)" and you get 517° DOR and a 20° lock

In ACC (which has no soft lock) I changed the ratio and nothing changed in telemetry. I must be doing something wrong.

And all these games offer controller linearity adjustment of course.

 

I do understand it. But that is in theory. Cause in ams2, even if i set my wheel to 900 dor (keep in mind that g27 has a hardware “flaw”: 900 dor in cp is ~880 in action) calibrate it in game and leave linearity to 50, and lets say run the evo in any track, it is insanly twitchy. That is not normal. Thats why i ended up lowering the linearity to 42.

I know it is wrong, but i have no choice. Maybe it is my wheel or a game bug for some g27 owners. (I know it s smth wrong as karts are too undrivable, as if the game for a reason does not auto sets the dor for the cars..)

I have already informed the devs to check that out