To Reiza: What physics do you actually want?

Right, so since it seems the members of the physics team are too important to come down to earth, and actually explain what they want to achieve, i guess i should take your answer as a "everything is fine with the game, its exactly like we wanted it to be, no need for more changes..?" Because i remember you having the exact same attittude when you were making long videos replying to Gamermuscle that all was fine, just for the dev team to admit that after all there was a problem with diffs that they had to address. So , and believe me, i mean no disrespect, but excuse me if I take everything you say with a grain of salt at this point.

If you want my take on it from what you said, if indeed more than one person is doing the physics, maybe that's exactly the problem. The cars are not the view of a single individual, but from a group, each probably with different takes on the matter. That would explain them being all over the place, from build to build.

And in fact, who are these people? Who is the "physics team"? What's so secretive about this? I can reach out and talk directly with all the physics people of almost all other sims, but Reiza feels the need to shield these people? Why? Is it Renato himself doing all the work?...

But anyways, all i wanted was to create a constructive discussion about this matter, because like i said before, it gets frustrating to follow the progress of the game, if we never know whats coming next, and what is the end goal, and every new build makes the cars feel different, and many times for worse but all we hear is "all is fine, everything is fine", even in the face of things that are clearly not fine.

If indeed the physics people believe progressive wheelspin is not supposed to be a thing, i would like to hear that, and not being gaslighted that its there, when i can definitely tell it isn't.

 

Aw man, went shopping yesterday and didn't get popcorn.

 

No, you shouldn't. Did you read his earlier comment in this thread?

 

It's got to be the diff surely ? That and a lack of lateral grip . Steel you must be aware of this behaviour or is it something not experienced across the whole user base ? The super V8 is a very good example of this , you can barely drive a straight line in the thing without constantly throttling off .

 

Can I just add that I do believe the super V8 should brake traction easily, it's just how it veers laterally when doing it !
This also applies to many other cars too .

 

Being aware of an issue is one thing, being able to diagnose it and then fix it are two very different things.

That being said, being aware of something and acknowledging it as an issue are two different things as well. The specific issue of cars loosing traction (IMO) excessively under throttle out of corners has yet to be specifically acknowledged as an isse, like the sticky diff was back when. All we currently get is a vage "not all is perfect". It would be nice to know if this behaviour is seen 'as intended' or not.

 

So in that case, lets hear it, what is NOT fine then? What needs to be improved? Everything i point out seems to be rebutted, despite ample proof otherwise, so what is left to improve, and how will it be improved? What is the direction?

The game has "credits", and yet, the people quoted there are nowhere to be seen in the thread, apart from you, who i don't think are in charge of anything physics wise besides setups.


You can't control anything in this game without massive amounts of opposite lock. The accelerator pedal is nothing but a switch that tells the rear how far you want to kick it out, and then its up to the steering to catch up.

The amount of longitudinal grip in the formula classic and retro is so big compared with the lateral, that making a burnout out of the pits its hard without lettting the engine bog down, no matter how hard you dump the clutch, with the accel pedal floored, and yet, we get to a corner, and the slightest amount of throttle kicks the rear out almost instantly.

When you have the formula retro pointing straight, the car starts to wander left and right with the back on top of it's own suspension, instead of just spinning the wheels and keep its forward momentum.

I am pointing out specific things, like others are in this thread. All i get from you is "you are wrong". You see the difference?...

I reference a couple of cars because i am trying to be specific, i tried many more.

As for my application, spare me the snarky comments.

 

What does FFB has to do with the rear later grip? This shouldn't have an impact, unless the FFB is "reacting" too late to what the car is doing.

This is just wrong. If longitudinal grip is overcame, the rear wheels begin to spin in the same spot. This in turn changes the lateral slip angle, which gets progressively wider as more wheelspin happens. This is what makes drifting possible and controlable.You still have lateral grip, its the slip angle and grip curves that change, and can be manipulated with the accelerator alone. This is exactly what is NOT happening now.

The car should not be swaying BEFORE wheel spin is achieved and yet this is what is happening. If this is happening it means the load on the tires is possibly increasing slip angles at a faster rate than the wheels themselves lose traction. This would not happen in real life, unless your tire is almost flat, because its undesirable for obvious reasons, you want the car to keep lateral integrity as much as possible.

Too much importance is given to differentials in this forum on this regard. Sure they are important, and they play a role, but even a totally locked differential car can have nice progressive wheelspin and controlable slides. Once again, that's what makes drifting possible.

This is only true if one is trying to trail brake, something i specifically avoid doing when i comment about understeer or oversteer traits when entering corners.

Well if that is the case, then indeed all the rear wandering can only be down to the tires. But i knew that already, because if anything, all those formula retros are way way too stiff, probably in an effort to try to controll all that roll that is happening when it shouldn't.

Well, if that is one of the strenghts... the way you guys make the cars, you can't have it both ways. If i want a car that is pointy in corner entry, it will be terribly lose on exit (even more than they already are). If i want stability on exit, the car will be mortally crippled with understeer on entry. If anything, it should be the other way around, pointy on entry, stable on exit. What you are doing is basically inverting the natural balance of real cars to create this "illusion" that you can dispute braking zones or brake late into corners, and come out "swinging" the tail out just for show. Which is falling flat, because of all i said above.

This is all very true, but this should really only affect heavy aero cars, like group Cs or mdernish F1s.

 

Like, who is Richard? It seems for some reason I should know who he is? Maybe a spy who has got Intel on Reiza's internal work?

Oh well, I am really enjoying the game atm. I know it is not quite there in many areas, but when looking back 3 years ago, I can see massive improvement in all areas. Just lime ams1, the game just started receiving the praise it did at the very end of its dev cycle.
Ams2 will get there I'm sure, no need to be a di***k about it just because we are not there yet.

 

Well its nice then, who doesn't like to be the first

Yes i did, i know my way around a setup. But have you driven the car in project cars2 with the tires i sugested?

Also, i wasnt being arrogant or dismissive. I dont know what is your role no, but if you are indeed involved in the physics development, i would like to know what credencials or work you have that you can show from before working for reiza in this, so at least i can have a feel for what direction we are going. In my case thats easy enough to find.

 

In fairness....when AMS2 was first released, Reiza had stripped the engine of many features and released it barebones than slowly added them back in as they reworked them.

So ya, it could only improve cause the game was terrible at release.

I feel many, myself included, were hoping Reiza would build on, ex. PC2's features (not content), and focus on improving the physics but they choose to strip it down and start from scratch in many areas, which is leading to alot of the frustration from some of the community.

Issues SMS didn't or couldn't fix over there 10yrs of development are still popping up.
I was a big fan of the potential of this engine....but 13yrs later, the endless amount of bugs resulting in different overall experiences between users is starting to wear thin.
I too, hope and believe Reiza will sort these issues.

 

Welcome to the new "Are you ready to rumble thread"
This discussion is only good for : see above.
It leads to nothing as worries and is completly useless.
We talk about things intern in the Beta forum and not everybody needs to know everything.
I miss some loyality here. Too many "experts".
Even such a lurid article as in a boulevar newspaper: "To Reiza - what physics ,bl,bla,bla..."
Breaking News the Physics are faulty.Don't you think we don't know that in some case?

 

I hope Reiza bring back the backing availability and I can be in those forums too. I’m getting a little bit crazy

 

This thread started as an interesting topic to discuss (watch and learn in my case), developed as a full entitlement and arrogance one, and now is converting to a **** lenght competition.

My god.

 

There probably should be a “frequently talked about topics” in this forum so we avoid talking about the same thing ALL THE TIME

 

At first I thought someone was looking for a job here.....