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Top speed of classic G1

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by alink, May 25, 2020.

  1. alink

    alink Active Member

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    Hi all,
    top speed of the classic G1 seems a little bit high. With full downforce you reach over 355 kph at Spielberg historic and yes, they had about 1200 - 1500 hp so enough power even to be much faster. But I haven't found any top speed record of that time. Official top speed record is Juan Pablo Montoya with 372 kph in Monza 2005.
    So my question, does anybody has top speed values of that time or know if the reachable top speed (with full downforce) is realistic?
    I would estimate about 320 - 330 kph to be reached on more or less all circuits after short time but with max. downforce (as used on most circuits) the drag will rise so high that not more is possible.
    What do you think?
     
  2. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    "During the 2nd Qualifying session at Monza, Gerhard Berger's Benetton B186-BMW was speed trapped fastest of all cars at 352.22 km/h (219 mph), while team mate Teo Fabi was second having been clocked at 349.85 km/h (217 mph) on the long front straight."
    Source: 1986 Italian Grand Prix - Wikipedia
     
  3. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Österreichring track layout with the "Voest-Hügel" in game is from 1969 to 1976, so you will not find the real speeds. The G1 cars are modeled after cars from about 1986 I think
    But this is from monza 1986;
    'During the second qualifying session at Monza, the Benetton-BMW of Gerhard Berger was recorded as being the fastest car along the start-finish straight, with a top speed of 351.22 km/h (218.24 mph)'

    (Strange difference, 1986 Italian Grand Prix - Wikipedia )
     
  4. alink

    alink Active Member

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    In 1986 the layout from 1977 was unchanged. Both in AMS2 available pre 1977 and 1977-1995 with 1st chicane in Hella Licht corner which was added (in the 80s there were some other small modifications but no change at the fundamental layout).
    Thank you both, but at Monza / Hockenheim it's possible that they reduced downforce and there are long straights where they reached about 350pkh. But at other tracks with high /max downforce and shorter straights, 350kph and more is a little bit to much, IMO.
     

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    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  5. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I think one of the G1 cars is the Toleman TG184. What do you guys think? That would date it at 1984. Not sure where the G2 cars are, though. Im much more familiar with the G3 cars. But that Toleman is so unique with the exposed engine. I couldnt find any other cars around that era that looked like that.
     
  6. alink

    alink Active Member

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    sorry, this doesn't fit in anyway, take a look at the picture of the TG184.
    IMO it seems to be a Zakspeed or maybe an Alpha Romeo both from 1985. A Lotus I don't think. The Lotus is flatter especially the side boxes
    G2 cars are from end 80s. Due to the different engine specs it should be 1987 / 88 because there were a mix of power limited turbo engines and normal engines without turbo. In 1989 turbo engines were forbidden.
     

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  7. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    It was confirmed by Renato on the Beta forums that the G1 cars are from 1986, G2 from 1988/1989 and G3 from 1991.
     
  8. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    TG184 is the only one I could find that had that interesting exposed engine arrangement. Looks like I mixed up Gen 1 and Gen 2 though, so my time frames are all messed up. You're entirely right. I was thinking about the Gen 2 exposed engine car.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  9. alink

    alink Active Member

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    good look:)
    maybe a Ligier?
    But REIZA didn't rebuild a real car so it's a mixture of different cars to get a construction which fits into that time. And all in one that time there had been two distinctive differences: a little bit more bulky cars with the design from beginning of the 80s and more flat cars which where developed in mid 80s (like the hyper flat brabham BT55 from 1986, Williams 1986/87 or McLaren 1987/88....)
     

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  10. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    Yeah I guess at every turn I am always surprised at how faithfully they reproduce some of the F1 cars I do recognize. I cant quite tell what the Formula V10 is, but it looks like a mixture of a couple of cars, but it's a masterful hodge podge. I guess they've done something right when you cant tell which cars have taken liberties and which ones are straight copies.
     
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  11. alink

    alink Active Member

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    by the way, we are off topic, but nice discussion.

    I want to know which top speed were reached that time and if it's realistic in AMS2. IMO it's too high which means the cars have too less drag.
     
  12. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing Reiza Backer

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    They're generic 1986 F1 cars. Google is your friend.
     
  13. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    Benetton B186 did 240mph at Monza, 218mph at the first chicane. Monza isn’t in the game though. Brands Hatch is, and the b186 was touted to be the only car to exceed 190mph going into Hawthorne. But setup plays a role . The turbo cars had a lot more drag than the ground effect cars.
     
  14. SaxOhare

    SaxOhare Active Member Reiza Backer

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  15. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I do think the cars are a little bit much. During a TT Challenge round Imola 88, or Imola historic, I was reaching tamburello at just over 207mph, you've still got the entire rest of the straight to go. The cars were powerful, sure, but surely they had more drag than that?
     
  16. Aaron Green

    Aaron Green Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I always thought it was a mixture of the 2000 Ferrari and 2001 Williams. But I could be totally wrong.
     
  17. alink

    alink Active Member

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    Sure, if you set medium or low downforce, then you reach without any problem about 400 kph / 250mph, try for example in Kyalami historic. But with high or max downforce, as they were used in that time because of their high engine power with which it wasn't any problem to reach a high speed and therefore grip for max. cornering speed was much more important, i think they never had been so fast as you can be in AMS2.
    As I know, high speed and speed records were set firstly at 1998 when the cars get narrow (wide of 1.8 metres)and the engine power rises over 850hp. In Hockenheim they set a speed of > 360kph, in 1997 (wide of 2 metres) they reached about 340kph (and up to 330 kph beginning of 1990) with flat wings (as seen in picture). Later, in 2004 and 2005, the cars reached speeds of about 370kph which was the fastest time period until the new hybrid time in 2017. f1-german-gp-1997-start-action.jpg
     
  18. InfernalVortex

    InfernalVortex Active Member

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    I havent had a chance to check, with a medium-high downforce setup, does the Gen 1 hit 190 mph going into Hawthorne at Brands Hatch? Im curious. I'll probably check tonight.
     
  19. Gabriel "Pai" Legnini

    Gabriel "Pai" Legnini New Member

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    The steering wheel gives away that it's a Williams. Which one from 2001 to 2003, I don't know, have to check bodywork closely for that.
     
  20. alink

    alink Active Member

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    please check it:)
    I did some laps at Imola 88 with Gen3M2. These cars have too much drag. With minimum (0/0 wings) downforce I just reached 310kph / 193mph.
    I've a book from 1991 which presents the 1991 session. In this book, all cars, drivers, tracks are showed. Gerhard Berger (McLaren Honda at this time) noted the gears and top speed at each track.
    If I take a look on Imola ('91 same layouit as '88) he set a top speed of 330 kph. At Monaco 290 kph, at Montreal (same as '88) 320kph before final chicane, at Interlagos 310kph. These may be the experience out of the session from '89 and '90.
    Of course, AMS isn't final at the moment, but it seems that drag values of the f-classic (G1,G2,G3) don't fit to real life.

    On the other hand, top speed of V10 and V12 seems to be good and compareable to real life.
     

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