Track layouts to receive AI line redos

Yeah, they've always been slow at turn 4 in Brasilia full track layout. I pass them going around the outside.

 

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Edit: Green text is improvements from V1.48 to V1.50 which in my opinion have been fixed, red is still problematic, blue is better, but still needs work, and black still untested in v1.5

********DISCLAIMER********
Notes beneath pertains to V 1.48
After 2hrs on v 1.5 I must say, the ai improvements are incredible!! Closest to human opponents I've seen yet.
Already an improvement with the ai behind not out breaking the whole pack as severely as before. Several corners mentioned below is already sorted out in v1.5. I'll adjust the feedback over time
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I got over 1400 hours playing time in AMS2, just for reference

Generally the ai are still racing in packs **quite a big problem in my opinion*

1. Historic Spielberg **massive improvement**
a: Open wheelers ai is too slow through the 2nd turn (long uphill right hander, after starting straight chicane). **improved a lot**
b: Tin tops slow through same long uphill right hander
c: all ai classes slow through middle of the BOSCH right hander
e. all ai classes slow through last left hand turn of the track (the 3rd last turn)
e: all ai classes slow through the very next fast right hand bend (2nd last turn)

2. Modern Spa
a: turn 6 in les comb the ai is always too slow. They're good entering after kemmel straight, but then slow into short left hander t6.
b: ai generally slightly slow through long right hander t15 Paul Frere.

3. Daytona Road course
a: bus stop chicane, ai is insanely fast through there. **much better**
b: ai slightly too fast exiting t6
c: ai slowish through last chicane t13, t14

4. Modern Bathurst.
a: Super V8: Ai slow through t2 (Griffins bend, tight right hander after mountain straight).
GT's good ** this has been improve a lot**
b: All cars: ai REALLY slow through t4 "the cutting"
c: Only V8: ai very slow through left hander T9 "frog hollow" and into first right hander of the downhill section
d: ai always way to fast in to left hander t21 than possible. **huge improvement**
e: Only V8: ai now slow entering last left hander, which was not the case in v1.48
f: ai generally around 10% faster than on other tracks

5. Ibarra, ai way to fast through into t3.

6. Kansai
a: ai slow though Dunlop curve, t8
b: ai slow through t9 and
c: ai very slow into t11 hairpin

7. Road America
a: ai very fast in to t5 **improved**
b: ai slightly slow through t7
c: ai fast through middle of carousal **generally on all tracks the ai seems to have better mid corner grip on long fast corners** **fixed**
d: ai slightly hesitant through "thunder valley" **probably a good thing**

8. Virginia
a: ai way fast in and out of t1 "horseshoe"
b. ai way fast through t10
c: ai slightly fast through t14

9. Watkins Glen **mostly fixed**
a: ai very slightly fast though inner loop chicane **seems better**
b: ai fast into t9 **improved**
c: ai slow through t11 (last right hander) **much much better** still marginally slow
d: T1 right hander still carnage, ai crashing often

Important:
*****edit: the following has improved, but is still a bit of a problem:*****
The ai chasing the player has significantly better breaking than the ai in front of the player. This results in either the player taking the ai out in front in order to defend, or the ai from behind takes player out due to normal breaking of ai in front.
Obviously with low aggression this is not as big of an issue as with higher aggression, but with low aggression, the ai is just too hesitant all over.


In general the AI has improved tremendously in v1.5 GREAT JOB REIZA

WHAT AN UPDATE v1.5 IS!!

This just off the top of my head, I'll add as I play....
Thanks for a GREAT sim It's thoroughly enjoyable and the content is just plain awesome. The moddding scene is such a great "addition" as well. Keep up the good work devs

 

Sprint Race at Londrina Full, default everything, AI 100/high, 5 minute Q, 5 lap race.

I got pole by 0.7 seconds - I was 0.35 down in S1 but then 0.53 up in both S2 and S3.

Didn't notice anything untoward behaviour wise other than twitchy sideways movements when you run close to their side, but the AI are slow in several places:

T2 / Estadio
T4 / Caixa D'Agua (Very slow here)
T5/6 / Esse (Very slow here too)
T8 Very slow on exit
T10 / Vitoria (exiting onto pit straight

 

Fontana is already on the to do list but for the sake of documenting it:

Opala Old Stock @ Fontana Oval
AI are too slow through T1 and T2 and along the back straight.
They are then a bit too fast going into T3 (I understeer into wall if I try to maintain their pace here - I'm on default set up though).

 

Just playing at Watkins with the DPI and agree 100% with you on:

a: ai very slightly fast though inner loop chicane
b: ai still fast into t9
c: ai very slow through t11 (last right hander)

 

Worth taking a look at Londrina (short). Just tried a few races in the v1.5 Sprint car (dry conditions) and am doing laps in the 1:17s (default setup) whereas the AI @100% are in the 1:19s and over. I went from last to first in a 5 lap race (30 cars).

Using the graphic below for names:
They're easiest to pass at Estadio and then on the inside going through Caxia D'Agua.
They're fairly slow going into Vitoria and Boxes (easy to drive past up the inside here).
They can be a touch slow coming off the Esse onto the start of the Reta Oposta straight.

 

But if the Ai are 2+ sec per lap slower than you, doesnt it make sense its all in the corners. I mean you've higlighted almost all of the corners. Does this mean the AI in general just needs to be faster at that track?

 

Lowering downforce definitely puts the player closer to the AI behavior (for cars relying on aero), which makes me think they are more correct than I thought at first when reported the same as you (tested modern stock cars, carts, etc). While lowering the downforce will make the car a bit slower at T1/2 they are still too slow (and a bit too fast in t3/4 still, more correct it is not correct)..

What I have found in the las days is that with a proper set up you can race the AI in a more realistic manner in ovals. Still, it is annoying to set up for that instead of your driving style. I think the issue in part is that all the AI cars have the same behaviour (the same "setup"), apart of being sometimes non optimal. With more variety of lines and approaches this would be more masked. Easy to say for me, but implementing that naively would also complicate their interaction on track...

In ovals definitely the AI unrefinements are more evident than in road courses.

 

The AI gains at least half a second on the player on T6 at Nürburgring in every car I've tested.

Also, it's not on the list, but Curvelo needs an AI redo, because they lose a lot of time out of the fast "S" and in the third to last corner, which the player can take flat out or almost flat-out in pretty much every car.

 

Interlagos GP when soaked:
The AI often spins entering T4 , also exiting T7 and into T8 they go into the curbs and spin.

Their overall speed is fine, though they are quite slow throughout T9 but they gain it back on T11.

Buenos Aires No 6:

The AI do a half spin every time they exit the pits on the right hander (FV10G1).

 

Daytona's already been mentioned and is on the list for redoing but an observation about the Roval:

In the P1 Gen 2s, I was 3-4 secs faster than the AI. The AI were using DRS and on the oval sections, if I wasn't using DRS, they would be a bit faster than me but if I also used DRS, I was much faster than them.

 

Road America - Porsche RSR 74, AI @100%, default setup, damage off

The AI are noticeably faster in a straight-line than the player's car along the start-finish straight, the next 2 straights and the Kettle Bottoms straight leading into T12 Canada Corner. Even if I continually block them so they lose momentum, as soon as I let them, they immediately power past me as if they have much more bhp. This only seems to happen when they are in their "player aware" state, when they're within about 1-1.5 seconds of the player. Once they get more than about 1.5 seconds behind, they settle down to normal pace.

 

Velopark, P1 Gen2 + GT3s, they smash the walls. I've never seen so much carnage XD. Are AI lines actually reworked there?

Edit: I put a particular time in the video but most laps sh*t happens there.

 

Did a couple of races on Montreal and while it's generally better and fixed the spots I had issues with, it also introduced new ones.

1. AI generally goes through T5 slower than the player, goes too much on the outside rather then hugging the inside
2. in T8-9 the AI goes in too hot and sacrifices their exit speed out of T9 while also not hugging the inside enough making them slow on the straight (you can even see F1 cars putting a wheel over the sausage kerb which the player can also do to gain on the AI)
3. AI has too much grip out of the hairpin, wasn't a problem before

Also tried to race the AI in the wet but I still think there is way too much of a difference in their speed compared to dry conditions. In GT3 I was keeping up with the top AI on 120 difficulty but they were going circles around me even on 105 in the wet. And the new slippy kerbs and rubbered lines doesnt seem to affect them at all.

 

I would like to draw attention to Imola 1988. In the first section of Variante Bassa (the right-left sequence) the AI is very very slow. You can make up there close to a second and there is a high risk or rear-ending cars.




Also, I see AI will get redone at Jacaperagua historic. There I see them very slow in "Sul" corner - I drive around the outside of AI all the time there 0,5-0,7 easy to make up on AI and they are also off pace at Girao and Morette corner.

 

I don't see it mentioned (unless I missed it) but the AI take a very conservative / slow line through the final corner at Velo Citta.

 

I've been running with P1 Gen 2 in Velo Cittá, and the AI seem to be a bit fast in turn 3 (caipirinha, I think it is), they go full throttle while I have to lift a bit (unless the AI play with their setups, I wasn't using max downforce, maybe they were...).

 

I did a couple of races recently. This was on the release build - I'm not sure if that different from beta at the moment. Not sure if this should go here or the AI report/physics threads.

Formula USA 2023 at Watkins Glen Inner Loop - AI at 103 and "Max" aggression.

• Turn 1: their braking into this corner feels superhuman. If I try to replicate their moves I will certainly end up wide and/or with a huge lockup. Especially apparent on the race start where brakes and tyres aren't up to temp. This also resulted in many lap 1 turn 1 collisions before it was possible to get a race going, as they clearly expected me to be able to follow or outpace them when I was on the inside - so they took the normal racing line as if I wasn't on the apex. Here's a video example of the undesired turn 1 behavior - this is even with "High" aggression - on "Max", they'd probably have hit me hard enough to cause a DNF for me:
• Inner loop: They seem to be much less affected by the high parts of the kerbs compared to the player. Could be setup related. I drove mostly default with slightly tweaked aero balance. EDIT: This may have been partially due to my own driving. I tried the race again today where I attempted to replicate the AI's line with pretty good results. Seems like I was not leaning enough on the aero.
• Outer loop: AI feels slow through here, I could mostly catch up everything I lost in inner loop to their kerbing I couldn't do.
• Turn 10: Feels a bit slow as well, but not too much.

Stock Car Pro 2023 at Velocitta - AI at 99 and "High aggression"

• Pace feels good around most of the track! However, through the last corner they take an extremely wide line, where the line taken IRL is much more narrow. This makes them super easy to pass at this part of the circuit, especially as it leads out to the main straight where they will have less speed as a result of their line.

 

100% - this has been my experience in the 74 RSR on other tracks too. They kill you down the straights.