1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Track limit violation - Feedback on the new system here

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Renato Simioni, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    6,380
    As per the v0.9.6 release notes, the new build has introduced a new system to penalise violation of track limits.

    The system works by calculating whether time was actually gained by exceeding track boundaries (so small mistakes should not trigger a penalty). When a violation is detected in practice, quali and Time Trial, the lap time is invalidated; In races, race control will allow up to 4 violations before the driver is awarded with a penalty (a major cut will still award an instant stop&go as before)..

    The system is still considered a Work in Progress so this topic is to clarify questions, provide feedback and reports on places where it may be proving too strict or too lenient. If you find a situation where you felt the system was inaccurate, please report here. Please make sure to specify the track layout & corner related to your report, preferably including a screenshot to illustrate the issue.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. gongo

    gongo Dan Allongo

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    351
    Cool, I'll have to play with this when I get home from work.

    Is the lap time set to 0 or -1 in the scoring info struct when the lap is invalidated? And what about the sector times? I'm looking for a way to programmatically figure out that a lap is considered invalid since I can't access the scoring updates character stream.

    Thanks.
     
  3. gongo

    gongo Dan Allongo

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    351
    Ok, so I just played with it and watched the values, but it's inconsistent. If I go off-track, the message center says "lap discarded", but the sector times are still scored and the native HUD will still show the lap time and the lap time still shows in the scoring info struct member mLastLapTime.

    If I cut the track in sector 1 then my mCurSector1 is -1 and mCurSector2 is -1 but my mLapStartET stays valid. If I cut the track in sector 2 then my mCurSector1 is > 0 but my mCurSector2 stays -1.

    Either way, mTotalLaps continues to increase, regardless of whether the lap is deleted or discarded or invalid.

    It would be great if the timing showed invalid laps in some consistent way such as setting the lap start time, sector 1, and sector 2 time to -1 or something. Last lap time would be -1 too. Thanks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. gongo

    gongo Dan Allongo

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    351
    On second thought, it looks like you guys are starting to put some extra data into those expansion bytes in the scoring data structures so hopefully we see cut track penalties and such make an appearance in there. Thanks. :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Koba

    Koba Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    41
    @Renato Simioni Help! Can you turn off the cut detection code in the release version for now? We have a race at Interlagos GP on Sunday and it's got a really bad problem. It triggers a cut detection warning when entering the pits normally.

    I was doing an offline practice race and triggered a couple of cut-detections on track. When I entered the pits normally I got the third warning. Later on when I attempted to do my 2nd pit stop, entering the pits normally triggered a stop-and-go. I still had to change my tires, so I came around again and entering the pits normally it triggered another stop-and-go, etc.

    I was wondering if it was just Interlagos or a general problem, so I started races at Montreal, Spielberg, and Virginia, and it looks like all the tracks have the problem entering the pits.

    So we really need this turned off in the release version for now. Even if you can fix it right away, I'd like to see some changes before this gets into the release version again:

    Requests/suggestions:

    1. Can you make it a drive-through penalty instead of a stop-and-go? A drive through is a heavy enough penalty!

    2. After serving a stop-and-go penalty, one more cut detection triggered another stop-and-go penalty. That's pretty harsh. Suggestions: (a) Reset the count so you get 3 more warnings before triggering another penalty, or (b) Make it 3 warnings the first time, then 1 warning after the first penalty and after each subsequent penalty.

    3. Can you put a symbol in the upper left corner of the screen symbolizing that a cut-detection warning has been triggered, and in the middle of it show the warning count like this: 1/3, (then 2/3, then 3/3). That way we will know our status without having to remember it. If you implement suggestion 2.b, then after a penalty the next trigger will show 1/1.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    858
    Hi, we are aware of the false cut detection issue when entering the pits. We will get a hotfix out asap.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. zAmboni

    zAmboni New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    I haven't tested this extensively, but in practicing I had several cuts where if you ride the curb and the curb ends, it will give you a warning. The two places I know it happens is on Spielberg (Austrian Ring GP) at the end of the first corner using the Formula Extreme. The other one I know for sure is the next to last corner on Goiania with the Copa Montana.

    Is there any way for the time being for the game to log the cuts in the result file or something so we can go back and check how things are being detected via replay? Would be easier to give feedback if we can check things later.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Christo Nieuwoudt

    Christo Nieuwoudt New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think the track limit penalty must only kick in when ALL 4 WHEELS are leaving the track.
    Many circuits are designed to go "wide" but our local rule is that you must keep 2 wheels on the black stuff. Not sure if you can code it like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Erick Goldner

    Erick Goldner Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    108
    Well..
    It seems MAD MAXX found a bug with Mendig in Sector 2 track limits: :)

    Mendig.png
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Jan Mikuž

    Jan Mikuž Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    53
    At Mendig it is quite inconsistent. One example that annoys me is the left inside curb at chicane exit right before the 2nd split. That one is very restrictive. At T1 the violation also registers too soon, i find.
    On the other hand there are places where you can cut turns, go over the grass and there's no warning.
    It's WIP, i understand. Will take some time to iron everything out.
     
  11. Pudu

    Pudu Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    64
    Londrina Kart

    I get a track violation simply by leaving my garage and making my way out onto the track itself - still in the garage area long before it joins the track.
     
  12. Dann Murillo

    Dann Murillo League Organizer: onlinesimracing.net

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    177
    My league drivers are getting a track violation for 2 tires off at Johannesburg in the V10s and we have a race tomorrow afternoon. I 100% appreciate the effort here but this new detection system may need to stay in the beta build a bit longer.
    Thank you for listening to us Reiza. ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Tony Binelli

    Tony Binelli Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    69
    agreed, its a brilliant idea but killing our races at the moment, I cannot understand why these major updates are done just before the weekend when the majority of us race? release them early in the week so we can do some testing
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Dajonaga

    Dajonaga untalented driver

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    14
    Hi there, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but....
    Track: VIR north course
    Series: Copa Montana
    Issue: stop/go penalty for exceeding speed limit at pit exit, even though the speed limiter is on way after the pit exit line.
    Video: Watch geas's video: found a bug - Plays.tv
     
  15. P*Funk

    P*Funk Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    56
    Is the logic of these track cuts based on the idea that 2 tires must always be inside the white paint and/or on the edge of the pavement where no white paint exists?
     
  16. Dann Murillo

    Dann Murillo League Organizer: onlinesimracing.net

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    177
    Today in my Formula V10 league race @Johannesburg everyone got a penalty for entering and leaving the pits. So if you had damage you got more penalties for making an additional pit stop. All that added to if you ran off 2 or 4 tires, which happens in a 50 lap race. I had to server 5 pit stops myself.

    Honestly beyond this track limitation violation system we love the game. The multiplayer interface in the game is a HUGE win! And the bug with exiting the server, then choosing cancel if you change you mind doesn't put us in limbo anymore. GREAT work Reiza, I am just not a fan of this new system yet as I believe it needed more work before being added to the public release of the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    6,380
    gongo - @Luis Miguel will set the record straight for you on that.

    Koba - as Alex already mentioned we´re aware and will issue a fix for the pit issues shortly. Will also take into account your other suggestions :)

    Funk - the system actually detects if illegal roads & track corridors as we set them for each track were exceeded and calculates whether an advantage was gained for it, so it´s not as straighforward as staying within the white lines (although ultimately that should be a safe reference to go by).

    Dann, Tony - The system had actually been introduced a week earlier in the Beta which you both have - it´s just natural though that in a title that has grown to be quite sizeable (22 unique series and over 100 track layouts now), such issues won´t come to the fore as quickly or at all when testing with 10 people or 1k in Beta as they do when testing with 25k under normal usage conditions. Getting the system out may compromise reliability for a few days but it allows us to spot & rectify issues a lot more quickly, which should be a fair trade-off specially if you consider that a) we are still in EA, b) we have been releasing major updates every other friday for months now, and c) warnings were given in the release notes along with the option for users to stick with the old version while gremlins are ironed out.

    I do understand though that for league runners it´s better not to have such issues to manage at short notice, be assured that once v1.0 is out of the way we´ll figure a day other than fridays to release new game updates. I hope you can also appreciate the logic here and bare with us for a bit, a hotfix covering most of the issues already reported should be coming up shortly :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
  18. Koba

    Koba Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    41
    Yes, it's good to periodically remind people it's still Early Access. :p

    Last month we decided to do one last league in GSCE because we knew AMS still needed to iron out things that would be more critical for league racing, but we hardly got anyone to join because everyone had moved en masse to AMS. Now we're running AMS races and more people are joining.

    We did a one hour, 49 lap Formula Extreme race at Interlagos today and we had the same problem Dann was reporting where a few people who had to pit for damage in addition to regular pits stops were getting stop-and-go penalties. I had one on-track warning early in the race and two pit stops planned, so I was driving scared for the last 45 minutes of the race because I knew I was out of warnings. :eek:

    Once the system is refined, it will be a very good addition to the game. Last week we did a race at Virginia, and when I watched the replay later, I found out that the guy who finished a few seconds ahead of me was cutting corners like crazy. He had four wheels off dozens of times, and I wish now that the cut-detection had been active for that race. :rolleyes:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. smove

    smove Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    20
    In general I'm really happy with the work you guys have done so far and every update brings another big smile to my face! A big thumbs up and thank you for that! :thumbsup:

    But – and there will always be a but – I'm not the biggest fan of the new track limit violation system. Even if you're still tweaking that in places: Could you probably add an option to enable/disable it like R3E does? Especially when learning a track it takes some time to finally get a valid lap time which often is too much for impatient people like me ... :D As a compromise: What about displaying the lap time at least (in brackets for example) without putting it into classification?

    Off topic/general question: I posted this over at RD as well but I suppose posting here makes more sense, does it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  20. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    173
    The day is not even the problem at all (counting monday to friday), the hour of the update is. IMO.
    Update it at a time like 7am or 8am CET and should give everyone time to update/check if all is running ok/rollback in case something has gone wrong before a league or scheduled online race begins on any part of the planet from Australia to US.

    On the track limit thing, I got a warning for put the front wheel on the grass after a curb @ Curitiba with Marcas, it was less than 0.5 second was more time lost than gained. :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page