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Vintage formulas drivability

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - General Discussion' started by Jonathan Spencer, May 3, 2020.

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  1. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing AMS2 Club Member

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    That's what I was trying to say, but it was already quite late yesterday whn I made this post :)

    I meant to suggest that the cars in AMS2 are way too fast around Kyalami compared to the real life times in the 1967 race and was thinking loud if that could be due to not yet simulated air density.
     
    Gevatter, May 6, 2020
    #21
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  2. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Close racing.jpg Close 2.jpg
    Fair race with the ai did not end in crash, just close!!

    Kayalami
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
    Maser V6, May 6, 2020
    #22
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  3. blanes

    blanes Member

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    Which track is that David C ?
     
    blanes, May 6, 2020
    #23
  4. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It is in already, Renato has posted about it a few times :) Was the 67 layout the same?
     
    Andy-R, May 6, 2020
    #24
  5. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    sry Kayalami Taking out the ai on the outside, both having trouble getting the horse's through the boots to the track! exiting tight 2nd to last turn coming up to last turn/home strait. think my rears were spinning a bit.
     
    Maser V6, May 6, 2020
    #25
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  6. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It looks like the circuit was widened for the 67 GP but layout unchanged for a long time. The car definitely drives quite differently to how the L49 appears to handle in the Rossi onboard at COTA. He is struggling to keep control of the car when braking and downshifting where I find myself struggling to unsettle it enough to get some rotation on entry.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Andy-R, May 6, 2020
    #26
  7. Gevatter

    Gevatter The James May of Simracing AMS2 Club Member

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    Basically yes, maybe a slight change here and there, but nothing mayor.
     
    Gevatter, May 6, 2020
    #27
  8. Madonion

    Madonion Member

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    i drove the G2M2 and did a 1.20.446 on kayalmi historic. Will revert back what i get with G1M1 :D
     
    Madonion, May 8, 2020
    #28
  9. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Is the Rossi stuff on utube?
     
    Maser V6, May 8, 2020
    #29
  10. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yep, if you google Rossi Lotus 49 it is the 7min video on the first page :)
     
    Andy-R, May 8, 2020
    #30
  11. Shadak

    Shadak Active Member

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    I didnt have many issues unsettling it on entry tbh. If you dont use throttle much to rotate the car, try adjusting the clutch LSD, increase coast angle to get less locking, default is really low + a bit less front ARB i find helps.
     
    Shadak, May 8, 2020
    #31
  12. Maser V6

    Maser V6 Assume nothing._ Verify everything._Have fun AMS2 Club Member

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    Thanks Andy
     
    Maser V6, May 8, 2020
    #32
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  13. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Wow, his tentative driving, the large amount of steering input required, slow cornering and general inability to elegantly point the car where it needed to go looks exactly like our experience in AMS2!! Reiza appears to have nailed it ;)
     
    Marc Collins, May 8, 2020
    #33
  14. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yeah I didn't explain that well, I'm actively trying to unsettle it into corners is a better way of putting it (rather than having to finesse it with careful shifts and braking.)

    There's also about 6 seconds between the Vintage Gen1 V8 (1:15.8 at Kyalami in TT) and for example the Lotus 49 lap by Clark in 1968 (1:21.6 at Kyalami)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Andy-R, May 8, 2020
    #34
  15. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    It will sound like an "armchair racer comment" right now, i know, but i just feel to point this out, to prevent misconceptions, so sorry in advance:

    Most of the observations from the video are down to suboptimum handling of the transmission and (of course) very cautious throttle application, though. He is not revmatching properly and keeping it way under any angle of attack, for whatever (surely understandable) reason, so he ran into some serious issues there with control over the car, unfortunately.

    Normally, these cars aren't made for driving them on steering, like in this video (like mentioned, understandable due to the HUGE historical, financial and ideal value of such a car), they're meant do be driven on pedals, with a lose rear or it's waaay to slow.

    Saying:
    Don't be hesistant on throttle at corner exit (veeeery important, once on the accelerator, never lift too much again), give it a certain amount of yaw and push it through. Also don't brake toooo hard, it can help to make it lose, while the weight does shift.
    The car in AMS2 is way more settled than the AMS1 version IMO. It's so much easier to let it slide without losing control, this comes also into play for the crazy laptimes. (even if not comparable to the real car in the first place, because of the "just" inspired car)

    Also try revmatching without the clutch at downshifts with strong blips, it should be working fine in AMS2, the transition from 2 to 1 is the hardest one in this regard without grinding gears, but you will probably don't even need it for the most part.^^
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    CrimsonEminence, May 9, 2020
    #35
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  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Internal Tester AMS2 Club Member

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    Agree, and didn't expect him to drive it like a bandit. But I was also taking into account the skill level of the driver...one that exceeds every reader of this thread or who may be fiddling with these cars in AMS 2 :)
     
    Marc Collins, May 9, 2020
    #36
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  17. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yes, it's pretty easy to do a good ride with such a car in a home setup. The IRL driver is sitting in a bathub with no room for the feet, an off center wheel and close sidewalls for the arms, while being shaken all over the place. Just getting an up- or downshift right on point for this kind of vehicle is a whole lot of work.

    Btw., if not already known:
    If you want to see the proper stuff with such kind of car, tune in to the Goodwood Revival (i really hope we get to see it this year because of f*** y** pandemic evil virus), there you can see some really MINDBLOWING stuff and even learn some things also for the sim, just by looking at the different driving approaches of many drivers there. The amount of slip and slide is crazy and you see them always searching for the break loose, they're not babying the cars. (reference to the "no hesitating on throttle") :)
     
    CrimsonEminence, May 9, 2020
    #37
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  18. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Revival is behind a paywall now isnt it? :( I think only the MM stream is free now... or maybe it was the other way around :confused:

    I'm not sure we can replicate anything like that Rossi video with the Gen1 Vintage F1 cars at the moment, he is at pretty low rpm when he does some of those downshifts and has to catch the car. I did just record and upload a video (twice) of me building to max revs in a gear then changing up and maintaining the speed and then downshifting whilst cornering with no blip at all in various gears but I think the actually footage is corrupt some how. Still it is an easy test to do and there is only a very minor kick when dropping down to 1st at high rpm with no blip (lifted all pedals so coasting) whilst turning.

    Don't get me wrong I like the car I just wish it had a little more of a sting in it's tail. Everything looks cool from that view though :D I tried to record a lap but another issue I have is the virtual wheel in replays is way different to my actual input and I can't get stable footage whilst actually driving. This is me trying really hard to keep my head as still as possible (believe it or not) to the point I'm over a second off my own pace. In a bouncy bouncy armchair even reaching for the gear stick causes a wobble :p

     
    Andy-R, May 9, 2020
    #38
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  19. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Revival is free to watch on stream on YT each year. The Members Meeting is behind the paywall ;)

    I know your style of driving from the F-Vee session and this vid is looking pretty much as pacey, as you were driving there, back then.

    I absolutely know, what you mean in terms of "sting".
    I see you handling it extraordinary smooth and this is coming from its overly tame behaviour and a capable driver exposing it on a recording (may sound pretentious, but it's like it is). It's even more "tame" with the Gen2, because of the big ol' wangs. Thanks for recording this run.

    I'm always criticizing its way to stable behaviour since beta already and you're showing it pretty clear in your video here. Magnificient drive, to be honest, you pretty much could find even some more aggressiveness into some corners. The car could need some more "kick", especially, when slightly reduced engine power and overall torque due to height comes into play, it just doesn't bite back and punishes...general problem of AMS2.

    So here we are coming back to the OP of this thread:
    I don't think, the F-Vintage is too hard or edgy to drive, it's more of the opposite and this is a judgement, i would make for most of the cars in this sim, except the SCV8, maybe.
     
    CrimsonEminence, May 9, 2020
    #39
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  20. Andy-R

    Andy-R Active Member AMS2 Club Member

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    I agree with your points, you know that already though like you say, discussed before after F Vee sesh.
    Regarding aggressivenessivityness I'm putting that down to wobble control :D This lap was a 17.0 I think and my best so far (on TT) is a 15.8. From previous goes in these cars I thought the V12 was faster but I stole Stu's time trial setup for the V8 and it really improved the car to the point I'm faster in it than the V12.
    I tried that SCV8 for the first time today at Interlagos and was pleasantly surprised, I normally stick to older (mostly 60's) race cars or low end modern race cars but it was more enjoyable than I was expecting, traction control I think is working normally now as I stuck 10% on for the 2nd gear corners and didn't have any issues... other than being over 2 seconds off pace :rolleyes:
     
    Andy-R, May 9, 2020
    #40
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