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What is the 'pure' and where is the Reiza's work at FFB. Where is the goal experience?

Discussion in 'Automobilista - General Discussion' started by Helleno, Apr 19, 2018.

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  1. Helleno

    Helleno New Member

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    First of all, I am rookie on race sim and I never had a wheel before. Also, I aware of How The FFB Works post and I read all of it. I am playing in a G29.

    I just bought AMD this weak. Boy, Im impressed. Great work Reiza! I know game developers are not valued in our national market and, as a brazilian, I am proud of you.

    I am not conversant with FFB configurations but I read some material, including Renato's guide about how FFB works. Even so, I have some doubt about what do you consider 'pure' in game configuration screen and what do you consider 'pure + effects'. As I understood, 'pure' is what the Real Feel plugin offers and the only improvement you did in this was the amount of Hz used in it. Its right? The thing is, when I select only 'pure 360hz' or 'pure 180' I have very poor experience (its my opinion). I don't feel anything about the track itself, I can run over the kerbs and fell nothing. I was not enjoying your game in it and the reazon I was so resistant in try effects was because I want to enjoy the most purist simulation AMS have to offer me and the name 'pure' let me think this was the best. Even in Renato's guide he talks about 'fake' effects. But, what in a purist simulation you dont feel a kerb or a grass? So, when I gave a try to 'pure + effects 3', man, that was what I look for, the experience became great. And here is my second question: The amount of work you put over the Real Feel plugin (except the amount of hz) is all in 'effects' part of 'pure + effects'? And why you call fake the effects part of FFB? Its kind of random or something like this? I personly fell the work Reizza's have to devery in FFB is mainly in 'pure + effects<x>' and, if its true, the name 'pure' its not a good choice. Reizza should have imagined an ideal experience to his gamers when they are developing FFB: its in pure or pure + effects? Its right to say 'pure' is the pure of Real Feel have to delivery and 'pure + effects' is the pure of Reiza have to delivery?

    Sorry my english and if I told some nonsense. I am learning and I learn fast. ;)
     
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  2. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Pure is, well, pure output from physics engine.
    Pure is forces acting on virtual steering rack passed to FFB ouput, and nothing else.
    Some curbs are flat, some are sawtooth-like shape. Our tracks model curbs as they are on real tracks. So if a curb is saw tooth like, it will make wheel move quickly up and down -> this in turn will be felt on steering wheel through suspension and in the end give you rattle on steering wheel, higher or lower frequency/strenght. depending of course on wheel speed / load. But it's all just live "reading" of force acting on steering rack.
    Here one can scale output level and vary the amount of smoothing applied to output, but thats mostly it, force "shape" depends purely on what physics engine calculates is present on steering rack.


    Pure + Effects is above mentioned steering rack forces and "fake" effects - shaped waverform - basically some rumble effects created based upon info what surface vehicle is driving on. These do not have relation to actual geometry / physical properties of surface but vary the outputted waveform inside preset constrains, with additional scaling possible, per user preference. For each effect, some vehicle data is used to vary it in mentioned constrains.
    Here one can shape the effect and get completely different results from someone else.
     
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  3. Helleno

    Helleno New Member

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    Thank you very much for the answer, Domagoj.
     
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  4. Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    Heitor Facuri Cicoti Good Member

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    Helleno, I use only Pure and I'm able to feel pretty much everything with my G27. Make sure your wheel isn't clipping by reducing FFB Strength (I'm using 70%). And if that makes your wheel too weak around the center, then increase Low Force Boost (I'm using 60%). On the Logitech Profile, set global strength to 100% and everything else to 0.
     
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  5. Helleno

    Helleno New Member

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    Thank you Heitor, I will try that. Indeed, there must be something wrong with my configurations. Even loading the default profile to my G29, I am not ok with that. I will try your configuration and feel how it works. Thank you very much.
     
  6. Rob Nelson

    Rob Nelson Member

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    Is there still a separate build for the G29/920? Could this be the problem?
     
  7. Domagoj Lovric

    Domagoj Lovric Moderator Staff Member

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    Good call, @Helleno did you choose G29 branch?

    In Steam->Right click on Automobilista-> Properties -> Betas. You will see screen like below, choose "logitech g29" from drop down menu.

    upload_2018-4-23_20-35-33.png
     
  8. Helleno

    Helleno New Member

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    Yes, I did it. But, to be honest, only to solve the 'auto rotation' issue. When I went to this branch, after my tests, I was already using the 'effects' configuration. Since now I did not realized it could help the overrall experience in G29. Sorry, my fault. I will try 'pure' options and did some tests with Heitor hints as soon as possible and post results here. Thanks the effort guys!
     
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  9. Helleno

    Helleno New Member

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    Hello everyone. Sorry, I am so late in post my results, problems with my PC... a lot of things. But, anyway, I just want to thank you. I used the g29 branch and Heitor hints and did a lot of tests. Well... I just think I forgot the configuration to soft a little of the force feedback on. I know, Its a shame, my mistake. Anyway, with all the tips I fell a better force feedback when using 'pure 360hz'. To be honest, still there's a feeling of wait for something that is not in my wheel but I'm am prety sure It's my mystake to expect it. I'm starting in sim racing and I have zero experience in real racing, so I thrust you. Searching from where this feeling is coming, I realized it is from what I hear and what I feel in force feedback (ex. when I got to a curb and hear the noise of the tires over that, sometimes I wait it to be transfered to my wheel and it dont, but I know its just my brain waiting for something that should no be there). Again, I thrust you and I will just adjust what I expect in my wheel after what I hear of the game. You did a great game, I love it. GoiĆ¢nia's racetrack is almost in my backyard and you did a great representation of that. I can't wait to see what you are preparing to the future! And... man... I just put my hands in a Oculus Rift... I hope so much that VR is in your plans!

    Thank you guys. And sorry my mistakes trying to write in english.
     
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