What's up with the AI?

I use the P3 Roco at Oulton Park International as my AI tester as the previous build it was the worst AI I have ever experienced, oh and I love this combo to hot lap in. This build the AI has improved, but still remains the worst AI ever. At Strength 50% and Aggression 50% 4 cars made it into the high1.35‘s and my best lap time was 1.35.5 but somehow the lead car pulls out a wonder lap to fly by me and he should have easily had the fastest lap but didn’t. I agree the AI times and the actual laps they do are distorted somehow. I increase Strength to 100% and keep Aggression at 50% now they are banging in high 1.34’s to very low 1.35’s and I can’t get anywhere near them. Their behaviour on cornering has noticeably improved ( still poor ) but at Oulton Park they just whizz right by you every lap, with a ridiculous “DRS” type advantage on each of the long straights. For me this is currently a great hot lap sim. But the great thing Is that every update, you can see the improvements and developments. I remain confident and super excited for this sim!

 

There is more to AI than lap times when looking for improvement. I think big strides have been made with the AI. Having said that, I guess I needn't worry about race weekends. As the AI isn't there yet. Thanks for the info.

 

Yip i fully agree, i just tested 100% and 50% aggression do they dive bomb into every corner and i cant stay with them anymore since im guessing their car is set up by the gods them self haha. Which i don't mind im sure there are people way faster out there that can keep up. So back to around 65% and 40% aggression i go then i can have a decent race but yea once they fix that coding that says nr 3 car must be first and get there by any means even if he gets turbo boost from no where is abit annoying. But it was cool to see another AI climb the ranks with me .Hope they can not make it so obvious and more human like.

 

I did a race with the P3 Roco at Interlagos against other Rocos and their speed advantage down the straights was ridiculous. I'm with them around turn 3 and am getting on throttle at the same time as them (I checked the onboards on the replay) but once I hit the straight, they drive off into the distance.

 

Yes, I noticed it since last two or so builds, so every new build I just go on track and test the Rocco at Oulton Park against the AI @ 100%

AI on this combo still has the "DRS effect", being ahead or behind the player. AI is slow on corners, but sky rocket acceleration at corner exit. The resulting lap time is more or less balanced with the player, but AI performance still is bad balanced across the lap: Slow on corners, but with an exaggerated acceleration out of them, so you end up almost crashing them on brake points, but unable to race them along the straights. It's really frustrating sometimes.

Also, Qualy laptimes seems to still be off in comparisson to Race laptimes. In qualy I was 1.2 secs faster, but in the race, two of the Rocco's AI almost matched my laptimes.

 

I do most of my testing on Ibarra. AI is very balanced there. When I have time, I'm going to try other tracks that I know well. Testing one track isn't indicative of all. It means work at that particular track needs to be done. Looks like the ongoing narrative is Oulton Park and the Rocco. Have you guys tried others. Would be good for us to share our findings.

 

Just beat the AI (100/50) in F3 at Oulton Classic (no chicanes) by 20 secs in a 10 lap race. Started from 8/16 using default setup. They are far too slow on exit of T1, T3 and entry to right hander at end of main straight. After riding onboard with one of them, they don't pick up the throttle until well after the apex. They have the same issues when using the Caterham SL. Or they're just chicken

 

Yes, I tought the same so I tested other cars/tracks. I always test that Oulton/Rocco combo first with any new build because to me it's where the "DRS effect" is more pronounced and I have it better identified in every situation, but as you say I very well know AI is a long WIP at this time so no complains.

The same behaviour as Oulton I can reproduce at Jerez with the F3 and Sprintcar, at Ibarra with the P2 proto car and at Guapore and Kyalami 2019 with the the Sprintcar also.

In the other hand, at "not Monaco" I can easily win even with the Metalmoro Duratec against Roccos, but the "DRS effect" is still present in every track I tried so far with the mentioned cars.

 

Another favourite hot lap combo of mine are the V12’s at Adelaide 1988. However, when you race at 100% strength and 50% aggression the AI are so unbalanced throughout the lap. They are faster than me pretty much everywhere except for the fast corner leading on to the back straight, the back straight itself and the final hairpin. I make all my time up at those three places, then they catch up to me leading into the sharp fast right hander on to the back straight, then they throw away all their time in that corner and the back straight and then finally again at the final hairpin. It makes for poor racing because I have three guaranteed overtaking points of the AI, which makes it predictable rather than tactical. There are no slip stream effects on that long straight, often I will pull along side them after having the speed advantage on the back straight and then I get stuck side by side and no slingshot effects. One last thing I’ll mention with the P3 Roco, is that I have to turn my FFB gain down 20 points compared to all other cars. This is due to it being so heavy and almost un drive able if I leave at the same level I use for all other cars. It’s a shame because I absolutely love the Roco.

 

I agree with most of the points in this thread, glad it's not just me. One track I've had decent races on is Kyalami modern with the Stock V8. It has some of the too fast-too slow behaviour, but I think it's a bit better balanced than some of the others and quite enjoyable.

 

I take back what I said about side to side racing against the AI This morning was a nightmare. It was nigh impossible to drive with the AI. Will be nice when this is sorted.

 

I wish they could just copy raceroom AI. Very good AI there

 

Why would they give ai lines that avoid curbs? Isn't that why they're so slow?

 

No Please.

Race Room AI is a nightmare, the worst thing on the market, are crash machines.

I hope AI is as close to ACC or RF2 as possible (in some combos it's excellent).

 

When was the last time you played RaceRoom? Massive improvement to AI. I can run alongside the AI in that Sim for consecutive corners with no problems. They give enough space, but will smoke you if you slip. I can follow them bumper to bumper at most venues I race at. Very few slow downs. They've been fixing them by class for a while now.

 

Well those AI are not all that great either, it is a known issue that the AI in ACC cannot overtake now and in RF2 tjey have had this weird stop start stop start when cornering for quite a while, the Devs are aware of it too.

 

It's a problem when you've got lots of different types of Cars (and trucks, karts!) and one Base Path/Line to use on a track. What one line may be good for one type of car may be detrimental to another; for example the SuperV8 can drive over Sausage Curbs and get up on two wheels just fine, you do that in a Formula Vee and you'll end up flipping over.

What will eventually come (as AMS has proven) is that Renato/Reiza will eventually tweak all the tracks for individual cars, but that is a lot of work and currently pointless when there's so much work still to do on the AI. Once they're much more settled with AI Coding (long after v1.0 release) then they might begin that monumental task.

RaceRoom AI is currently one of the best on the Market IMO, I've being racing them a lot this past week and they're very impressive and certainly on Par if not better than RF2 in certain situations (as ever different cars on different tracks mean your results may vary). As for ACC their AI is nowhere near either of those two, I found them very tame and boring.

 

Totally agree, since there are many categories of cars it is difficult to "synchronize" the AI so that they are as real as possible but ...... Reiza has a lot of experience, they chose to incorporate many categories and they should do it well.

Every time there is a big update I notice if I change something but the AI is still a disaster, RRE is still a waste of time (and money).
Yesterday I saw a video where they tested Daytona and the new Porsche.
As it is very noticeable that the AI has different physics to the player's car (a very rude error) the bots spent it hitting the player everywhere, until they hit him so hard from the side that they threw him out of the circuit.
This behavior does not make sense except for those who like arcade, it is not my case, I love simulators.

 

I won't go to far off topic but I've been doing a lot of racing at Daytona in the new Porsche and seen no such issues, i have heard too many AI can cause issues. I always run with under 24AI and for the most part they're very good on that track.

 

As an offline racer pretty much the only option to simulate a whole race (or season for that matter) is pretty much Raceroom. The Ai improved a lot, fight you, fight each other, sometimes do mistakes. All in all this leads to an very dynamic race. And the adaptive Ai thing is very good if you take the time to train it in a couple of short races. No need to fiddle around with the percentages anymore.
ACC Ai is pretty boring, they might fight you a little bit but otherwise build a train till the end of the race, dont fight with each other and are somewhat "sterile and lifeless".
Rfactor 2, well the Ai was good a couple of versions ago, now they are break stuttering through every corner, the AMG GT3 cant stay on the track for life, they wont overtake slower cars when theyre going to pit, the list goes on. S397 is all about the Competition system and the UI thats been in development forever. So i wont hold my breath for any changes anytime soon.

Sorry for this slight off-topic post but i just wanted to show that my hopes are high for AMS2 offline racing, especially if this custom championship tool from AMS 1 will be available in AMS2 as well.
Me for my part i just wanna drive some custom championship against the Ai from time to time whenever my very tight timeframe alows it. And with my crappy skills i would ruin online races for others anyway.