WHERE IS LIFT OFF OVERSTEER????????????

Fair enough.
Edit: I dont feel my experience in ACC making my car break out the rear lifting off the throttle through Sunset is that “subjective” though...

But keep in mind that a large portion of people that simrace dont have the slightest clue about these things, let alone when it gets down to having to prove your point with graphs.

So having the discussion about what is factually LOO or not is beside the point in this case of people criticizing AMS2.
I understand its a discussion worth having, but not in the grander scheme of things in this context.

Im not gonna argue technical terms but maybe people are really adressing the lack of “off throttle rotation”, in which case I think it should still be adressed.

 

Do you mean by natural deceleration that due to lifting? Any deceleration causes a weight transfer, and since grip is proportional to normal force, then the front tyres will gain grip and the rears will lose grip, and the slip angles will be affected by this change of grip. There will be a rotational acceleration due to these changes, and this will happen with no steering input, and so is a form of oversteer, and I know you won't want to, but is this not lift-off induced oversteer? It could even be the start of snap oversteer - who knows?

 

I'll use a source this time, look at page 3 of this document where they say that an oversteer situation is when there is greater slip angle on the rear tires than the front.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIFBAC&usg=AOvVaw0Vdq6y0uzchkt9y8eZMZP5

 

Yes mate. But you said:

How does braking automatically increase rear tire slip angle? That's the whole issue here, because it might not depending on your setup.

 

It doesn't, however a transition from acceleration to deceleration mid corner will, I misworded that.

 

Plain old steering - I like that! Plain old steering is just grip generated from slip angles, the grip being a function of the tyres' normal forces which can be resolved into the lateral and longitudinal components. When you look at it like this by going back to first principles, then it covers all situations, static or dynamic, whatever you may choose to call them.

 

But how? Wouldn't the rear have to step out first? What if the slip angle before transitioning is mild and the rear is still perfectly able to grip with the load it's given? I feel like your logic is missing important steps that then go through setup variables as well.

 

Some cars seem to. I know I posted elsewhere but the Sauber C9 seems to have a decent amount of off throttle rotation from what I recall. This is just based on feely subjectivism, though, but I remember that one acting much closer to what I thought it should.

I do agree that AMS2 doesnt have the off throttle rotation other sims do. What I have also noticed is that sim racing, without the G-forces, divorces us from perceiving a lot of things correctly, so while I *think* the understeer present off throttle is bad, it could very well be much closer to accurate than we realize.

Does your telemetry tell you the weight load on each corner of the car at different times? I know I've always felt like you never really feel any actual weight transfer happening, and I was wondering if we could put that to bed and say it's in my head or not.

 

This is where I'm split, because I believe that a magic LSD (no pun intended) can provide you "extra rear steering" if you will when coming off the throttle, but then also limiting so it doesn't go too far like open diff junior formulas often do. Then we can start discussing if at some point your rear tires have a large slip angle, but your front tires not so much. That would be oversteer. But often you just have a bit of extra steering so the car still feels stable. Off the top of my head I would guess that the rear slip angle is still less than front. As in not oversteer.

But does such a magic LSD actually exist or is it just some kind ISI motor and Kunos simplification?

962 too. It reminds me of Raceroom's Group C although again not as contrasty. That could be a lot of things including Raceroom's possibly overly enthusiastic diff behavior exaggerating the effect.

 

No, but a well designed diff will open and close gradually when you need it to.

 

I am a bit. But really I don't want to make any statements. Just wondering if it's indeed quite the homologation special. This is important, because as the driveline is still being fine tuned in many cars, we shouldn't expect an unreasonable end result. Not least, because I don't think Reiza will or can easily sprinkle magic on the diff.

Do you have real world data and/or expertise on one? This is genuinely something I want to find out. I understand how clutch LSD works in that the preload, coast ramp and negative torque from the engine resist differentiation. But it's torque sensitive, not speed sensitive. What we think we're seeing in ACC is a unicorn diff that has very little lock until you reach high rear tire speed differences which is not how I imagine a clutch LSD works in practice. But this might be explained by some other factors too.

 

Do we know the radius of the turn? We can surely figure out if 6.7 percent makes sense based on that. It does seem high.

 

I could look up the turn radius, but I'm more interested in the radius of the line you were taking if that is possible.