WHERE IS LIFT OFF OVERSTEER????????????

Yep, I understand.... that I am totally wrong here

 

Well, changing your rant into something like:
"Could it be that lift off oversteer is not pronounced enough in AMS2?" Would completely change the response you get.
I can recommend the 'rose of Leary'

 

In this Sim (dont get me wrong, I love it) you HAVE TO "position" the rear end with "giving throttle". The other way round (understeer on and oversteer off throttle) is impossible. BUT in real life it is possible (and my drexler diff is set up in this direction).

If you have made different experience in AMS2... Send me the setup... I am curious...

 

What cars are you driving?
I really love the F-Vintage gen 2 (driving the Brabham) and with that car the lift off oversteer is really there.
You have to lower the tyre pressure quite a bit though as it is much too high on standard setup

 

Exactly what are your comments based on/with, and why are you obsessed with off throttle oversteer.
You don't see F1/GT3 or even most drivers opposite lock into a corner.
This isn't rally, its track racing.
Off throttle rotation yes, but off throttle oversteer is a different world.
As for on throttle understeer, depends what your driving and how progressive/aggressive your inputs are on the throttle.
I just can't see how you cant achieve any of the above in AMS 2.
For me it has the most adjustable/dynamic tyre model of any Sim on the limit.

 

Steering inputs asside!
A little example for you. If you setup a 50:50 weight car "neutraly" (same slip angle on front and rear tyres) then you have (normally) full control regarding the behavior of the car over the LSD parameters and your foot. In this SIM not (at least if the car has a LSD... the ones without do behave)
If a long corner gets tighter i need more slip angle at the rears in order to be able to accelerate ROTATION with the "left" slip angle at the front (with slip angle I mean in this case the resulting lateral force). Mid corner braking to actually get around is not very elegant.

So yes, oversteer (slip angle rear > slip angle front).

Of course I can tgrow the car into the corner... but if the corner has 180 degrees it doesnt help. Again: thats not the point

Sorry mate for being such an ass sometimes

 

If I lift the throttle of my little mid engine sportscar (vx220) in a corner while I am on the lateral limit I get toxic oversteer (due to my setup).

 

This discussion is derailing in places. If we forget the militant approach of page 1, we can surely continue in peace.

In this case. It's not just florian, but also me. It's not obsession, it's typical car control in many cars. Would it be obsessive if this was about subtle controlled throttle oversteer in the Super V8 or ARC Camaro?

I don't see any need to bring up F1 and GT3. They are hardly the only racing classes in the game. Also it's not this black and white. A small amount of oversteer can look like you're not steering at all. Though you are probably working the wheel with small corrections to stay in control.

Ironically Schumacher was known to utilise oversteer in F1. It's not quite opposite lock of course, but that was never the point.

Well put. Oversteer is just a word to describe imbalance just like understeer. Liftoff oversteer is nothing to be afraid of if you're asking for it as the driver.

Also from Wikipedia:
Oversteer is what occurs when a car turns (steers) by more than the amount commanded by the driver.

I can see why terminal liftoff oversteer an issue with super stable beginner setups and in road cars on public roads where you're definitely not supposed to become a racing god mid corner.

Snap variety is negative yes. I enjoy a nervous setup that will snap if I'm not smooth, because it means I'm in control of the amount and quickness. So for example the Vee is my jam. But this is definitely not for everyone.

However liftoff oversteer doesn't have to be snap oversteer. It can just be an agile car that calmly responds to throttle control by taking the balance towards oversteer. That's why the default coast ramp values are quite low. They should be stable, but they are way too stable right now unless you force the rear to slide. In my dream AMS2 future, I would expect these defaults to understeer less or even get very slight oversteer from lifting, but never snap (unless there's a puddle, a crest or other strong outside variable).

If anything the current situation where clutch LSD cars show hardly any liftoff oversteer at over 100km/h could be considered negative. People have certain expectations. It doesn't have to be exactly like AC for example. After all we're attempting to improve beyond other sims. But I doubt the current amount with default diff values is correct.

You have very good tips . Unfortunately I've found coast ramp angle adjustments to be worthless at any speed over 100km/h or so. Other adjustments might very well work! I'm just saying that coast lock theory does not apply at medium to high speeds for now and I wish it did. Maybe it does along with your other tips, but I as said above I wonder if it should be that difficult to get the differential to... well, differentiate.

There is always the possibility that since most of us (probably?) apply experience from past sims, we are used to extremely well behaving LSDs off throttle and its function shouldn't be as smooth. And as I said a bit earlier, you have to lift a lot in many cars due to the way throttle works in AMS2. There's usually still a lot of torque with 50% throttle so there's not as much weight transfer going on when reducing throttle to half as one might be used to.

 

It's not correct to say there's no lift-off oversteer as there clearly is in some cars, whereas in others it's muted and mostly presents as lift-off rotation, as mentioned by Simmo99x. Yet in some others, it's completely missing because the diff remains welded shut no matter what.

Lift-off oversteer: All FWD cars, most open diff cars, G40 (geared diff)

Lift-off rotation, no oversteer: Most RWD cars with a LSD

No lift-off rotation, only throttle oversteer: Spool cars, Formula 3, FRetro

We can of course keep debating on how race cars should behave, and acolytes of a certain bald tea-drinking influencer will go around repeating the mantra "AMS2 has no lift-off oversteer" until the cows come home. But Renato knows what he's doing and they have proven they can put LOO into their cars when they want to. If the LOO is "muted", then that's because they want the cars to drive like that and believe it's realistic. If they really wanted the FRetro to have lift-off oversteer, they would just put back the geared diff it once had.

Right now, for me at least, most of the cars are in a good enough place that I can just "shut up and drive".

 

Have you made any attempt to setup the car in game to behave as you would like it to behave or is your feedback based on the default setup?

It would be useful to know what setup change you have made, if indeed you have made any.

You tell us plenty detail about how very experienced you personally are but absolutely no detail on what changes to the setup you have made. Either an oversight or laziness.

 

Sorry, but please try to understand the topic before you give someone with 20 years experience on real and software tracks a setup advice. I know how to reduce GENERAL understeer...

 

Ok can someone explain what exactly off throttle rotation means and how is it different from liftoff oversteer? Is it just eliminating power understeer and achieving balance (steering input leads to expected rotation)?

 

Florian, a course in human interaction might do.
People here are trying to help and understand where you come from.
This constant attacking won't help the discussion, and don't know about the others, but you lost me. If you don't want to discuss things normally, why are you on the forum?

 

For me, the usual test is whether in a fast corner that can't be taken flat out (say the Craner Curves at Donington), a slight lift will give the additional rotation needed to hit the apex. In contrast, in a vehicle with actual lift-off oversteer (say a hot hatch), the last thing you want to do in a fast corner is to lift because you will instantly go sideways and either spin or scrub off too much momentum.

 

True @azaris
In my posts, I called it lift off oversteer, but lift off rotation would have been more accurate, although one setup I tried really had the oversteer and that was beyond my capabilities of control

 

This is all true. But you're describing liftoff oversteer .

Even in the FWD example you can still lift a bit to influence the car if you're right at the limit of not making the corner otherwise. You don't have to lift all the way. Perhaps it'll just eliminate understeer (in which case, yes, it's not oversteer), or maybe you'll even get very slight oversteer. But slight oversteer will not be an issue. It's not as black and white as this discussion makes it seem.

Rotation is probably a better word for this from the driver's perspective, cause we don't always have to be splitting hairs and rotation is what we want no matter where we get it from. I'm just saying that liftoff oversteer does not automatically mean that you have too much of it.

 

You are right... The dissatisfaction lead me to wanting to know if this issue is a discussed one in the community and if someone knows if it will be addressed. Sorry for my impatience regarding (in my opinion) off topic comments.
BR Flo

 

Rest assured that it is discussed here and in the closed beta section (from what I hear anyway) in various threads. And as Azaris said, Renato knows what he's doing with testing support from beta folk. It'll just take time to make it work in cars where it should work, because of the complicated foundation they're dealing with .

Meanwhile I really enjoy the Caterham Academy for example. It just shows you what can be done when the diff is not interfering too much all of the time. I would also give the old Stock Cars (79, 86, new old stock) a go if you haven't yet. Or the old soap box Lotus from the 60s. Cracking little thing.

 

I totally agree... Yesterday I tried these little formula trainer thingys... Et voila! Lift of oversteer as desired.