Automobilista 2 April 2021 Development Update

I know it was talked about on this thread, so I wanted to mention it. One of my Q&A questions on Facebook was about Oval racing having yellow flags... Reiza confirmed they are working on that, so here's hoping we get Indy and Indy cars into the game! I want to do the Indy 500, Full distance!

 

Video doesn't reveal much to me.

Can we get some perspective here--how much is the wheel base reduced for 2020? If the car transitioned from a Super V8 to ARC proportions, it might explain the differences I don't think the small change would be noticeable in our consumer-level sim equipment.

The car behaves perfectly as expected (like in the video, and a bit more of a handful than the 2019) given the lower down force...until the tires warm. Then, the car behaves as if it is on a semi-slick surface instead of pavement...despite the HUD still showing green for the tires.

The video shows no evidence of such massive degradation, so as I mentioned above, I am sure some adjustment to the tires' heat variables will come. Other than that one element, I think we have a reasonably accurate SC 2020 that will feel moderately different from the 2019. It shouldn't feel dramatically different, because it isn't. Of course the drivers will complain...maybe not as bad as F1 drivers screaming the tires are totally gone and then doing laps a few tenths below the fastest

Who here can detect a problem with the car that isn't related to tire deg?

 

If anyone can detect the difference of 6 cm wheelbase in a car this big and heavy, they deserve an F1 seat, not to be playing AMS 2.

There is no possibility the relatively modest technical changes in the chassis explain the night-and-day tire deg differences in corners slow enough that aero is not a factor. It's either some tire temp modifications needed by Reiza, or, the series put horribly designed tires on the cars on purpose to make things more exciting. Do we know what differences there are to the tire specs in the real series?

P.S., since several other cars in the game have been transformed by these adjustments to tires, I am voting that's the explanation.

 

Still doesn't explain why the car handles as expected until tire deg kicks in.

 

Yes and Guapore eats the right side tires without a proper setup for that track. So I would say the margins are thin with tire deg even there.

 

Not to mention the opposite: a few years ago, a Formula Truck race ripped the tarmac so badly that it put the future of the circuit in doubt.

 

Ah yeah true. Well the thing is that it heats up the right side tires fast in many corners. But I think part of that is also how much you want to push in the banks. Still the most noticeable issue is high wear when right side tires are often above 100C.

 

most people complaining about stock car 2020/21 don't even watch the real world races to see how the car behaves on the track and how much they need to look after the tires because they overheat really easy and they want to push the car to 100% all the time and expect the car to behave as a 4x4 car stuck to the ground, these cars are not supposed to be easy to drive pushing to the limit, but if you know where to break, where to go full throttle, they are very easy do drive. Driving a car that is difficult doesn't mean that the physics are not good, it means that you may need to practice more with that car and understand its limits

 

Do you find the limits of the car reasonable when you compare with tires cool versus normal temps?

With no wear (of any significance) involved, I find the car perfectly modelled if it is supposed to be a bit edgy and twitchy compared to SC 2019. But then as soon as tires reach normal temps, not overheated, they behave as if they are overheated. This is the only issue with the car, as I agree it is not expected to be an especially calm and well-planted car by design.

I'm interested in others' views about this. If you think the car is terrible always and overall, then no point. If you think the car is reasonably well modelled, who else notices exaggerated tire temperature-based degradation that occurs at temps too low and is too severe to be plausible? The car is not easy to drive even when cool, but you can get a couple of laps moderately quick laps out of it if ambient temps are cool (below 20C). Push the car, or start with summer/higher temps and it almost immediately starts flailing like a fish out of water.

• Video showed no evidence of this severe degradation
• Brazil is a relatively hot place where higher temps should be expected
• If the car behaves when cool, but not hot, it's the tires, not the car

A) It is possible that the tires in the real series were altered (along with the down force reduction) to provide more excitement, but they mistakenly went a bit too far and created a car that can't race in the heat or for more than a lap without "falling apart" form a handling perspective and serious recuperation required. Reiza has accurately modelled this.

B) It is equally possible that the tires aren't that bad at dealing with temps in real life (haven't seen or read any evidence to-date that suggests the tires are that bad) and it is a relatively small tweak to the tire physics values that will allow the car to last a bit longer and deteriorate less severely overall when tire temps rise to normal or just above normal levels.

If I had to bet my own money, knowing what I know about real racing and Reiza's development history with AMS 2, I would pick B as the vastly more likely scenario.

 

If you remember back in 1998.1999, 2000 there was a lot of talk and actual physical difference in behavior between Ferraris short wheelbase design and McLaren's 10 cm longer wheelbase and F1s already have a pretty long one so 10 cm weigh less...
And like others are saying, you are piling up a significant reduction in mechanical grip, one in downforce and a further destabilizing reduction in wheelbase. Also if I am not mistaken the rear wing in the old car had a much bigger rear overhang while now it's almost over the rear wheel and that also adds negatively.
It's hard to quantify all of this, but I would expect a quite noticeable difference across the board

 

There is a noticeable difference across the board--no one was debating that! The major change to down force and it seems tire compounds/construction can be felt immediately. What I was saying and still agree with is that a small change to the wheelbase (2%) in an otherwise almost identical car (especially one this heavy and big to start with) cannot be felt by any of us using our sim equipment. A 2% change to the weight or down frce also would not be perceptible. But a major reduction to down force--of course.

Anyway, my request above for feedback is actually not very useful at the moment. My feedback is based on testing when we still had hot weather (that is returning at the end of the month if all goes to plan). Right now all the hot climate tracks except the Aussie ones are set to cooler temps. Bathurst is such an atypical track that it's not particularly useful for testing this issue. Adelaide is OK, I guess.

The epidemic of handling issues with this car will either return with a vengeance when we go back to summer seasons, or, it will get adjusted away as part of the many, many tweaks that will occur as part of the next build and we will forget about this debate

Without what I am claiming/hoping to be excessive tire deg, it is actually fun to drive if you want a bigger challenge than the SC 2019, or the '99 for that matter! You need to be on your toes and it will reward realistic driving that manages tire temps versus the hot lapper techniques that aren't used very often in real racing.

 

Thanks a lot for that! Driving this game feels amazing on tracks like Jacarepagua or Cascavel, with no narrow hairpins, but on tracks like Adelaide, modern Hockenheim, or Monaco, it can be quite a chore.

Gamepad support is mostly fine for me as it is now, but we simply need more steering range in slow corners relative to the quick corners - that presumably is an issue of balancing speed sensitivity. As of now, you have to go for settings that require immense precision on high speeds in order to be able to turn in halfway-decently in slow speed corners, and I sincerely hope that this gets improved in the next update.

We need about 3/4 range at ~100km/h, at the moment we've got about 1/2 (even less on some open wheelers), and that's on pretty aggressive settings (think speed sensitivity ~55)

I don't know how many beta testers use a controller - if there's any need for additional feedback, I'd be glad to be of help

 

(posted in wrong thread)

 

Omg, how cool is that trenton, the oval with a right turn and the USAC cars. Mouth watering stuff.