Strange base car setups

I'am wondering for quite a while now, what is the reason for those strange LSD, camber, toe and tyre pressure base setup in AMS2?

For example, a lot of RWD cars use 0.5 toeout at the front, a setting used in the RL world only for Auto-Slalom tracks or in Rally sports.
Even some FDW cars with more restrictive Diffs use slight positive toe on, most high performance FWD cars with wider tyres go for zero toe, for example all VW Golf GTI.

In most cars, most noticable in the BMW M1, this leads to the front tyres beeing hotter and chewed away long before the rear tyres in endurance races.

Also very strange is the inability to go for more than 0 toe in on a lot of RWD cars, (M4 GT4 for example) but ridicoulous toe outr values. Debatable is also the often high rear camber (>2.3)but zero toe in at the rear in a lot of RWD cars with lot of torque.

All FWD cars have too much pressure at the rear tyres to make them unstable and sport dangerous and unusefull lift off oversteer.

The LSDs often only use, quite open ramp, 2 or 4 clutches for cars with lots of torque, where a 60/40 6 clutch LSD is pretty common RL.

Sometimes and on some cars (Porsche Cup), I come to the conclusion that the base default setups are somewhat made to be game-controller friendly and to look spectacular from external camera with all driving aids activated.

Im just asking for the discussion because a lot of my virtual club mates are asking me this, since I promoted AMS into the league (GT4 endurance), but not all of them are used to the factors how cars are set up RL and im Sim.

And the last strange thing, why is the Ultima GTR Race Basically outperforming any car in game in performance and handling, but I never heard if it or have see it on a track or in a race before anywhere?

 

There is a team in the Britcar Endurance Championship that used to run the Ultima GTR (they've since built it into a custom prototype):

MacG Racing - Britcar British Endurance Championship

 

I agree with that. Have already quoted this in "bug" section (even though it is not a bug but rather a bad setup for the specific cars) here:

Bug Reports - Automobilista 2 (Read the Opening Post)

Really hope Reiza would change the default setup values during the next update(s)

 

Regarding strange setups particulary to Porsches, in particular the 911GT3 Cup Porsches and the Cayman GT4. Due to the poor setup possibilities in AMS2 for this cars, it is nearly impossible to achive the pace of this roads legal GT2 RS Production Model. Purpose modified race cars should go faster and more stable trough corners than production models!

As I wrote before, the Porsches im ASM2 need a bit of the "magical treatment" that those Ultima GTRs got.

 

The GT2 RS MR has 700 hp and a specifically built aero kit from Manthey Racing!!!

 

Manthey also make the Cup aero and chassis kits, Its not about the power and speed, its about the handling of the cars. They dont handle well and you can make them handle well because there are no setup options, lieked the Ultima GTR allow. The dampers, ride height, spring, front aero and bump stops don't have much options. less so then most cars in AMS2.
The GT4 Cayman Clubsport MR in AMS2 particularly is labeled Manthey Racing too, but feels a lot like a worn out base Model in regards to handling.
Compared to all the changes in setups steps and handling a lot of cars have been treated letely, the BMW M4 in particular, the Cup Porsches and the GT4 Cayman are falling behind. It's a strange game universe where a Porsche Cayman GT4 MR is outhandled by a Camaro GT4 R.

 

I've been saying similar for months. The base setups for most cars need an overhaul. Reiza should create semi-fast-but stable generic base setups, for ALL cars, wet and dry, that would be good bases to work from on all circuits. More dedicated players can then alter them to suit their needs on particular circuit scenarios.

That sounds like and is a lot of work, so I suggested a couple of months ago, that they should enlist some of the most trusted/loyal/passionate/etc members of the community to create them, with accreditation where required.

Take the Sauber Mercedes Group C car for example. there's no way that the real car was that volatile in the lower gears, where merely breathing on the throttle, brings the rear end around.

Great base setups, create great first impressions.

 

It is a tricky discussion. Personally, I was never able to drive any Porsche at any somewhat close to decent time over the Nordschleife. But that is more or less because I'm just to stupid to handle a Porsche even with a decent setup.
In the real world, David Pittard (BMW factory driver and driver for Walkenhorst) had a interesting comparison video between the Porsche GT2 RS MR and his BMW M6 GT3. He was 10 seconds faster. So, there is that.
In the sim world (here AMS2), the fastest M6 GT3 on the Nordschleife clocked a 6:19:916 and the fastest Porsche 911 GT3 clocked a 6:23:500. Of course, I don't know when and with which AMS2 version this times where set but it seems possible to set fast laps.
To the GT4 cars, if I remember correct Renato mentioned that they are working on tuning the GT4's. So, there is hope the Cayman also will get better.

 

The Porsches are always limited in design regarding engine size, they can't just slap in a 5L V8 into the rear of an 911. So the philosophy was always about handling, even the production models are close to race cars, since the customers demand it and high power and torque band.
The Porsches are recently falling a bit short im AMS2, the 911 GT3 and GTE are just reminders what it could be.

 

I recently tried all the GT4 cars in AMS2 both in ACC and R3E (as available). My lap times were consistently within 1 sec between sims, and the basic feel was similar once getting over the differences in tyre models and FFB. So while there may be valid criticisms of some of them (I don't like the M4 for example but quite like the Cayman/Ginetta/Camaro), it's not evident that they drive much worse than they do in other sims.

A GT4 car has fixed suspension and dampers and almost no aero, which tends to highlight any small deficiencies in the physics model because you can't tweak your way out of any problems.

 

I agree with you here. The Porsche GT3 doesn't seem like even close to the real car. There is a video from Matthias Malmedie (unfortunately it is in German and I apologize for posting non-english footage) where he drove the Porsche GT2 RS MR on the Nordschleife. During his drive with the Porsche he mentions several times how amazed he is about the physics of the car and how it is glued to the track. At the end of the video you also will see Lars Kern (the guy that set the record) driving the Porsche.

 

You might be correct. For me personally, driving the Cayman so far is a horrible experience and the BMW GT4 needs some tuning which Renato already mentioned. The only GT4 I really enjoy driving is the Ginetta G55.
But that is just me and your mileage may vary

 

Well, that might explaion why my drivers rooster stays empty, apart from invited friends, whenever I set up a Lobby with GT4 at Spa. The G55 is indeed fine as well as the McLaren, albeit it has a BoP problem in this class and next comes the Camaro GT4R, ironically, since it is known RL not to handle as well as an M4, but making up with power.

 

Regarding "strange default setups". in the lastest versions of AMS2 1.2.4.x the Power and coast ramp on all porsches is reversed. It is a well known fact that all available 911 compatible LSDs since the 70's , except Quaife ATBs, have a higher Coast ramp compared to Power ramp. The reason is to stabilize a tail heavy car when braking.

In current defaults, all of the ramp angles are correct in numbers, but are reversed.

 

id love if they would just move the setup sharing ability from TT to the pitbox screen, where everyone can just share/download a setup in realtime for the track/car they are at

mark it with a condition, like qualy/race and dry/wet and maybe a laptime, either autofilled or corrected
maybe steering type and assists

on the other hand the "downloader" can also rate the setup with a 1 to 5 stars or whatever


games like LFS or AC have such systems and work pretty good

 

pC2 also had the feature so it is definitely possible to do it, but I guess it is a matter of Reiza configuring it

 

i am still hoping that reiza has a type of timeline on their whiteboard, where they want to finalize the singleplayer portion of the game and then mainly focus on MP once SP is "finished".

ofc not saying they will stop development all together, but once its finished all it needs is some minor tweaking and bugfixing anyways.

from there on alot of quality of life features like the one i just suggested should pop up pretty quickly anyways.


speaking about the coding aspect of the game, more content is most likely being produced in parallel like it has been since day 1