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Automobilista 2 April 2021 Development Update

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, May 2, 2021.

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  1. Lucas Vieira

    Lucas Vieira Member

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    Exaclty my point of view! While you try to race in single race, starting from last, and overtaking everyone in T1, crashing into others cars (as they all are AI) and restarting after you spin out of track, you may never learn how to really race at propper manners.

    I do like the MP with ranking system as in IRacing/ACC, because if you spin out, there is no reset button, you need to recover your position, and others drivers may do the same (go off track, spin etc), and its possible to recover your position, something that doens't happen very offten with any AI. Also, if you have something to lose, like a rating, you wont try to do risk moves that can end your race and end the race for others drivers in one move. You need to learn how to be patient, wait for the opportunity to overtake, learn how to be fast and consistent without make mistakes, because there is no reset button.

    An AI doenst had the unpredictable from the human behavior, to defend a position, to force you to make a mistake, or to trick you pretending that going to overtake just for you make a mistake, and others. Even F1 2020 which had one of the best AI IMHO, doenst give so much pleasure as race against others drivers.
     
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  2. azaris

    azaris Active Member

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    This is a fallacy. Most people who race offline against the AI do not do it this way. We want a close race that resembles as close as possible racing against humans where the AI also can fight back sometimes. If you just punt the AI out of your way (and you can do this is any sim) instead of treating them like humans, you learn nothing.

    There is no evidence that MP-only players are cleaner racers. iRacing/ACC/R3E lobbies (even ranked ones) are filled with 1st lap multi-car crashes, people slamming into each other's rear bumpers, divebombing etc. Losing rating doesn't really mean much, that is why they also have a protest system to penalise reckless driving, retaliation etc.
     
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  3. Marius H

    Marius H Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Just watch this video:
    • Download: mr3_lb7qvyb8sa7we
    • Put it in ''C:\Users\Yourname\Documents\Automobilista 2\savegame\XXXXXXXX\automobilista 2\media''
    • Load AMS 2 and have fun.
    • Use my point of view within the cockpit
    • This is your average public lobby with 15/20+ people. I was a little late joining, so just started in the back.. What I saw just baffeled me, because I usually start at the front or pole.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  4. stealthradek

    stealthradek Member

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    I think the discussion ventures into dangerous neighborhoods ;)

    To me it's not SP Vs MP, ultimate goal would be to have both areas developed so SP players can join MP without major dramas and MP players could practice offline in a sensible environment. And some could enjoy both :)

    There's no need to fight which one is better or worse, both deserve to be good and compliment each other.
     
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  5. moneypizzle

    moneypizzle Member

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    Imagine there would be a teachable AI version of yourself running around in the game/multiplayer doing ur lap times on a particular car/track combination interpolated to the conditions. Like the TT ghosts but then AI :cool:

    Lobbies would be filled with similar AI and you yourself can jump in and take over at any time :p
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  6. Lucas Vieira

    Lucas Vieira Member

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    Its not a fallacy for sure. AI its easy to predict and several people know how they will react and take advantage of that. I play SP races for years, and i used to do that, a LOT. After certain point, you really doenst learn much, even with highest AI level.

    Off course they always will be dirty drivers, in any sim, even in IRL, like F1 has. And the protest system works very well in this cases. As i said, "i by myself" like the MP due this reasons. For example the rating system help to balanced the low skilled drivers with the high skill drivers in a race, where you can find a driver how might drive close to your skills and have good fun around the race, including everything i said above.

    I play iracing for around 2 years now, and i it was extremally few times that i was taken out by on purpose or smash by other driver. In AMS 2 it was extramally few times that i race fair along side other drivers, unfortunately. I have high hopes that this can change in the future with the ranking system.
     
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  7. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Typical bright example of open minded unbiased judgment seen so far in the community.
    It's so sad to see that a small community like that of sim racing is divided into such feuds between sims with no prisoners taken...
     
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  8. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Madness Engine was a Ferrari engine with the spark plugs leads put in random order. That's the thing. Obviously it wouldn't fire well and it would need some.. let's say tuning :)
     
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  9. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    HYPERCAR HYPERCAR HYPERCAR :D
     
  10. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I also read that there are additional issues in using it for simracing engine because it doesn't have enough calculation cycles per second as the cars physics calculation would require. This would force a "physics engine" to be run on a "ad hoc" subroutine with higher cycles as needed while interfacing with human I/O and graphics would remain on the main engine (UE4) creating a bit of an odd situation. All of this would be a contributor to a certain feeling of disconnection apparently.
     
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  11. Ettore

    Ettore Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Did not play or watch much of RF2, but I have played and watched a lot of iracing. So are you seriously telling me that GT3s and GTEs are modeled well in iracing when they run on a freaking 46-48% front brake bias? There is no race car in the world running a rear dominant brake bias since probably the belt brakes have gone away from cars.
    Are you seriously telling me a good model of car aero and mechanics will allow you to push the clutch 200-300 m before T1 at Daytona 24 and lose no speed in order to save crazy amounts of fuel? Are you telling me that it is a good model of car/track one that will reward you with a few kph of top speed if you ride the center line of the Le Mans straights instead of the side of the track (like it is in real life BTW), much more than changing several clicks of rear wing? Is this statement for real?
     
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  12. Cheesenium

    Cheesenium Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I just race with whatever combination of cars and track I like. That is the appeal of single player races to me. Take some photos of the race at the end. Then, move on to another combination.

    Generally, I do not care about the campaign. The main thing of a good racing game is that the driving is good and that's all I want.

    Even games like R3E has very robust custom championship, I only used it a handful of times. Most of the times are solo race that I can start with a GT3, then, a stock car. Followed by P1, Formula Retro Gen 2, and P3 in an hour endurance. There is no way to get this type of experience with MP.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  13. Micropitt

    Micropitt Mediocre driver doing mediocre laps

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    That was fun to watch, from 15. to 3. :whistle:
     
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  14. Manohy

    Manohy Member

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    - So if you're in p5 in races against AI, if you spin out you get back to p5 instantly?
    - So every guys doing race against AI are restarting their races after T1 all day long and for many years?
    - So you think that there is no sim capable of simulating AI crashes and mistakes?
    - Didn't you think that solo players often have limited time to play sim because they have...life... so didn't you think that people racing againts AI consider time as a precious thing as rating.
    - So you think that racing against AI doesn't need driver to be patient?
    - So you think that studio that are working hard to develop AI are wasting their time?
    - So you think that even if Iracing which well know for MP implemented AI on the sim because they have nothing else to do?
    - So you think that guys like you if there is no solo players can maintain a sim to survive?
     
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  15. Cheesenium

    Cheesenium Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Obviously, they have nothing to do. The MP side work is done so they do AI for fun.

    It is insulting to the AI programmers for people to think that they are wasting time to do AI. Hence, this goes back to my point that some of these MP players think that having SP is a waste of time which I have no doubt that this genre will end up like most shooters these days that you only got MP to play.

    There is a reason why players want SP with decent AI, no one wants to jump through the hoops of MP and they can have the game in the way they want. Again, if the game is MP only, I wont be interested at all. I have no time to deal with people these days.
     
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  16. Jefka

    Jefka New Member

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    It's never going to be mp only, Reiza are and always were clearly committed to a great single player experience. I guess for many mp focused drivers it's just that we're a bit impatient for the mp part to really take off. That's still a bit off, especially for League racing there are still to many quirks and uncomfortable things. In that sense Raceroom might be a good comparison where it's really really easy to get online, classes have irl rules implemented, great selection of cars, ranked races, etc. But hey it took quite a while for Raceroom to get there and we just started on AMS2 :)

    Basically what @stealthradek said, both sp and mp should and can and will compliment each other in the end :)
     
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  17. Squalido

    Squalido New Member

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    Both are just important parts of a modern sim racing game. There are people who prefer singleplayer, there are people who prefer multiplayer, and there are people who never touch one of them. It is understandable that Reiza will focus their attention in one of those parts first. I also think that their position of not bringing the ranking system yet is logical as it can segregate an already not so much populated online, but also the opposite position makes sense as well (wanting it to have a protection for problematic people entering your race). Improving other stuff related with online (the improvements people are here asking for dedicated servers for example) is probably more important, and they didn't say they aren't working on that.
     
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  18. newtonpg

    newtonpg Active Member Reiza Backer

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    "Much Ado about nothing"
    The fight SP vs MP makes no sense.
    Both are heavily needed in a sim.
    So you have my opinion!

    About AI, people say AI must reflect real drivers in a good way.
    And I guess what kind of driver, a medium, good or less technical driver? a gentleman or a D-i-c-k Dastardly? or all characters of the Wacky Races?
    If AI must represent all kind of drivers there are in real life, you will eventually see a pile at T1 since this is how real life is sometimes, even at the top series.
    So what to be claimed in AI? What about to recreate a perfect world that doesn't exist?

    I'm old and naturally remember "all" the things from the past, except what I don't remember...
    The good old Race2play (RIP) in my rF1 times. Online races with lots of fun. Sometimes respectful races, other times pure garbage but most of all, enjoyment! And the plus for me was how easy it was to make friends from all over the world, mainly England, Canada, USA, Finland, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Argentine, Peru and even some from Australia 13 hours apart!

    All I can't accept to be stereotyped is that MP is for competitive people. No, absolutely. I am (or was?) a common midfield racer that enjoy simracing, only.
     
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  19. Lucas Vieira

    Lucas Vieira Member

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    Not at all, but you will be tempted to restart the game, as you have nothing to lose anyway.

    Its not up to me, but several players that i know and also friends doenst take very serious, if not restart or give up after T1 maybe later. But i totally understand your point. Its not evevyone.

    I do believe its possible yes, but its not just quite there yet. For example, if you have 2 AI battling for a position they make mistakes, and lose time as it happen IRL, but if its only 1x1 (Player X AI) hardly they make something different as a player will do. In the future this can change, but not at this current state.

    Not at all. Actually you make my point right there. I fit in this class, i don't have time to play all day long. I work the entire week, having only few hours during the weekend and 1 night per week to play at night, the rest i have my personal things to attend such as family and homework. In the current state of the game, i must have plent time for play in the MP, due to the empty lobbys. Have to spend hours waiting for a lobby fill with players. So in my precious time i have left, i rather play with others drivers than IA. But its my prefference, that why i play iracing in my free time, because the official schedulle its easy to separate one especiffic time to play. Again, in my case, not saying its same case for everyone.

    Not really, as i said above, in the 1x1 (player x AI) right now its quite easy to overtake. Let's wait and see the next updates, i might just eat my words after that.

    Not at all, never said that before. I'm not gonna lie i'm a bit dissapointed with Reiza postponed the MP. But i respect their decision, and its better lauch a system without any bugs than have to deal a bunch of criticism right now.

    Quite sure they have plenty to do, iracing have bugs just as any other sim in the market. Its quite different how they AI behave, i dunno how to explain, but also its not perfect. But its fun, also easy.

    Well, internet its easy to twist words. AMS2 has their goal to be a game with multiple choices, and its never been their target to be only MP game. So its quite obvious the answer its no.

    Anyway, its my opnion, not saying this going to change how do you guys play, if its SP or MP. I have experienced a great evolution of myself playing MP, learning a lot, reflected even IRL like kart races and track days. For me, i dont experienced this in any SP with AI game. Thats why my preference is to play in MP.

    In the mean time, i spend my time in AMS2 with the TT with its of one of my favorite things in the game.
     
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  20. Mikk Schleifer

    Mikk Schleifer Member Reiza Backer

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    Stopped watchin after half a lap of that laggin ping show, no way, checked the board few times
    looking for maybe A.I. in there... Server seemed to be strugglin with to much cars in. Multi can work great without ranking but good boys with respect you can count on, a star from yesterdays easy invitation lobby, no special league is needed then.
     
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