Automobilista 2 April 2021 Development Update

By

So why Formula Ultimate , Formula Reiza etc cars and the Super V8 are still in a modern sim called AMS2? What you say is contradictory. Also some old cars licence is not so expensive otherwise Reiza would not give them for free with every update. If i have to be in the same boat than the guys wanting fancy and trendy content I would prefer 2021 spec generic cars instead of real, grandad wanna be cool but outdated models like the AMS2 GT3. Stockcar 2021 is very OK for me for example.

 

I often come across discussions about license costs. Huge license costs is indeed often a big hurdle to overcome, but I'd like to take the opportunity to raise awareness on another aspect:

When it comes to dealing with licenses (and more broadly speaking: permission) for intellectual property, and especially old intellectual property, the biggest problem can sometimes be getting in contact with the correct person or entity who can grant you said license/permission. As an extension of this, in many cases we're not talking about a single entity either, so multiple people must be contacted and must agree with each other that their property can be used and agree what kind and how large the licensing fee should be. So while monetary expense is often the most limiting factor which is easy for us to understand, getting in contact with the property owners and landing negotiations can be just as much of a limiting factor as the monetary expense itself.

 

You seem to assume that the AMS community is only interested in classic content. If AMS2 wants to grow as a sim it needs to introduce new players and one of the most popular racing classes nowadays is GT3, so in that sense it makes perfect sense to bring that to the sim. It is also a effective way for exposure on social media as a video about new GT3 cars causes way more views than one about some unknown Brazilian series. I know I quickly learned that GT3 was coming to AMS2 because I got a ton of YouTube videos recommended about it. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

As for AC: I used to drive AC, ACC, rF2, and iRacing .
AC: Single seaters and LMP1/GTE cars at Spa, Monza, Silverstone, etc. and the occasional road car at Nords.
ACC: GT3/GT4/Cup/ST League racing
rF2: LMP2/GTE at Le Mans & Spa
iRacing: IMSA DPI/GTE

AMS2 has now replaced AC for single seaters (FFB and weather are just superior) and the occasional Nords I now do in AMS2. If the DPI/GTE content coming end of May drives even a bit like the rest of the content I can uninstall AC altogether. It also has the potential to replace rF2 as my LMP/GTE sim because AMS2 FFB is close to rF2's but it's graphical polishing is so much better it's not even funny. I absolutely hate rF2's interiors: the RSR was seemingly designed by someone who saw a 120x120px image of the interior about 5 years ago and tried to model it from memory. It looks nothing like the real thing and considering I only drive in VR that's a huge letdown every time I drive rF2. As for iRacing, iRacing still has the numbers over AMS2, but its driving experience is becoming more and more stale compared to more modern sims on top of it still lacking proper simulation of tyre damage other than normal wear (still not flatspotting) or weather.

In short: for me personally, AMS2 can replace AC, rF2 and iRacing in one go if they added:
DPI √
GTE √ (just 488 GTE missing)
Daytona √
Le Mans (will be difficult due to exclusive licensing with S397)
Indycar (coming?)
Oval tracks (coming?)

TLDR: 'Fancy and trendy' content brings in new players who may not know they enjoy the other content AMS2 brings and on top of that, it provides excellent exposure on social media for marketing purposes. The fancy and trendy content they're adding over the new few months will likely lead me to uninstall 3 other sims and just stick to ACC and AMS2 for my driving entertainment. I consider that a win.

 

Reiza is aware of AMS2's shortcomings but I hope it is also proud of its impressive achievements. Likewise, players should realise that Reiza is a small company with a limited budget whose developmental and licensing progress has been hindered by a pandemic that has ravaged Brazil. The company is working hard to improve its product under these restrictions.

 

The amount of noise in these threads is deafening. People have all sorts of arguments and opinions varying wildly about every single aspect of the game. And it seems to not matter that Renato has, every single month since release, tried to hammer-in the idea that they're only doing what they always advertised they'd do ever since AMS 2 came along: launch early, release free and paid content, improve/fix the game along at least a 3-year timeline.

Now, imagine the backlash they'd get if, by some people's suggestions, they simply stopped content development to launch a mega please-every-hater bug-fix, sim-my-fave-sim physics update and make-online-a-priority hackaton for the next year or so... Maybe a lot more people would start complaining about not getting what was advertised: a 3-year cycle of steady free and paid content alongside bug-fixing, physics improvements and new features and quality of life updates.

 

This is what happens when people's expectations are too high. It's still a long way to get to a satisfactory product, especially after the promise (backed by their work) of AMS2 being a long term project. It's definitely going in the right direction.

Comparing it to long established titles is just nonsense as those also had problems at the beginning. Did everyone forgot about ACC's first steps out of early access? They got there, so can Reiza.

If the current pace of development is not satisfactory for you, I'd suggest coming back to AMS2 and its forums in a couple of years

 

The funny thing is your level of elitism and fanboyism in your words is so overwhelming that your own words get to the ridiculous/grotesque side to the point you are inventing things. You seem to be the undisputed champion of the same thing you attack others for. Like if AC or RF2 had no issues or quirks.
S397 is not developing any new Le Mans game (which is not even in the works, all MGs has is the rights to the Virtual 24H based on RF2, but maybe you have insider news that have not been published nowhere yet) but please feel free to come back here and praise it when it's done 3 years from now and assuming it will have no flaws and issues. What they are really doing according to accounts published so far is working on a fix for the disaster of Nascar Heat. Which by the way does not bode well for RF2 issues being fixed or the engine being upgraded since it's quite obsolete in many departments now and wasn't really moving on fast on any update/improvement.
You may call fanboy anyone like me who just like AMS2 driving experience, but as a matter of fact I (like most others) have extensively driven many sims including iracing, AC, ACC, RR and do prefer AMS2.

Does that mean that AMS2 has no issues and quirks? Not at all. There are many pieces of the puzzle yet to fall in place, lots of things to be added or fixed, in fact like Reiza explained since the beginning this is a journey 2 years long. With all the issues that have come along in this 2020 I suspect it may be even 3 years long.
Do those issues and quirks mean AMS2 has to be bashed and killed in the cradle like many say? Not at all.

I think some people who are sparking "crusade style" conversations presenting some other sims like the "golden standard for simulators" or the "king of sims" are just having a hard time admitting that there is something else that has to potential to compare and possibly overtake them and that other products may reveal some of the shortcomings of their preferred "golden standard". It's not just about online numbers: by this measure iracing should be the most realistic and advanced simulator in the world but as a matter of fact it is not. We all know its physics quirks and the lack of critical features like weather.

First they tried to convince us that AMS2 was a bouncing simulators and it was Madness Engine's fault and couldn't be fixed. Wrong.
Then the story of the differential and the impact it had on the drivability was considered enough for AMS2 to be condemned to oblivion until Reiza mostly fixed it showing that it was a matter of actually tuning well the machine. Again wrong.
Now it's online ranking and liftoff oversteer (aka turning a car without turning its steering wheel). It seems like people are never running short of silly reasons to suggest that AMS2 cannot be a proper sim in its own right.
Honestly I have a weakness for the underdogs so I am really hoping that Reiza gets on top of all this to hear the embarrassment of all these prophets of disasters.

 

Oh you evil man
What a "terrible" way to describe it - I couldnt stop laughing

Yes the absolute downer in iRacing is their tire model.
Specially if you compare it to almost all other socalled racing sims.
Compared to as example the best behaving cars in AMS2 then its obvious (IMO) that AMS2 has so much more "depth" in the way you can loose (and regain) grip in different corners.
In iRacings binary On/Off tire model you can only regain grip if you lower the corner speed to under a certain threshold.

ByTheWay: The absolutely most positive thing about iRacings lousy TM is that because most other things in iRacings 24/7 service are so good then it would probably economically destroy almost all other racing sims if they cancelled Dave Kaemmers badly constructed TM and came up with something like rF2 or AMS1/2.

 

My feeling is these "ohmygod rF2 has teh perfecc physicc and now they're gonna make the perfect WEC/BTCC/NASCAR game!!!!!!1" people have never tried rF2 in their lives. Talk about fanboys.

 

I'm going to start by saying that as of yesterday I watched a video on Youtube from DONK.
It showcases the Custom FFB file/setup and use in AMS2.
So I decided to give it a go as I was literally about to give up after the last few updates and found myself hardly wanting to play AMS2.
Usually I'd give it a miss as some custom FFB files just feel as the user would want.
But I was at the crossroads lol.

I used the Thrustmaster Messing file v2.5 Smooth.
All I can say is WOW what a difference a day makes, it has totally transformed the game IMO.
Not only that but cars that were literally awful to drive now feel awesome.
Stock car 2021 and 2020 to name a few lol.
You can drive the car so much faster/on the limit it's scary.
It's madness to me that the default feel is so bad in some cars but ok in others.
If there is a way to put these files in the game as standard it would be a game changer for a lot of people IMO.

Congrats to the guys that made these files.
If like me you haven't tried out these specific to your wheel, I would ASAP.
Game changer for me.

Trust me if it works for me then it must be good, because I've slated parts of this game for months, and it's up there now equal to any other Sim IMO.

 

Or may be turn to an another scenario, they do what you said and finally the sim attracts the sim racing community which is obviously way more numerous that the actual daily 200 faithful, bulletproof-satisfaction players?

ACC is a different scenario. ACC was a GT3 sim from the beginning. They also made a revolutionary release system by making cars and tracks available step by step. Not an easy task but all Kunos has to do was to resolve bugs. ACC had a technical issues not conceptual issues like AMS2. Today a Brazilian content sim, after few months a Gt3 sim, then a US content sim ( by the way Rfactor 2 content conversion?)

Sorry talk about my own experience. From ACC,LFS,AC,RRRE and RF2, I played AMS2 almost exclusively for 1 year, I had the time to dig into by driving all the cars and tracks. Pretty sure that I dissected it way more than almost of fanboys here... I took the time to understand its "not so important flaws" and its "need to be solved weaknesses". My observation was multiangle oriented, technical, content, marketing, etc. I wasn't lazy at all with this sim, other that in game researches ( FFb, Setups etc) , I 've spend a good amount of time promoting it here and there to make people discover it... For example I've created my own method to make the default FFB stunning which common of mortals or any "technically average players" will never find...To be honest after the anniversary I left it progressively and went back to my other favorite sim (i love them all). I didn't have huge expectations as I knew that it was about to become a slightly better AMS1 but didn't expect that It was about to become a PC2 twin (Content, a bit of FFB, AI, community etc).

About coming back in 2 years. Not easy if my money and time goes to an another sim with which I build a deep relationship. Most of the people have a favorite sim where they invest more time and money compared to the other sim. Take each individual as a market and many sim are fighting to get some market share. In sum I can live without AMS2, BUT BUT BUT I'm still here alone against everyone because I think that AMS2 and Reiza (my favorite studio) deserves to hear various opinions about the sim to be able to improve it...after that it's up to them to decide. They still have the opportunity to change direction. Many people talk about 3 years development, what they don't understand is that it's up to the players to decide when they stop to use the sim. Like every commercial product, a sim obey to MARKET SHARE law.

 

Tr

You can also try this and tell us what you think.
Just use the default FFB and those parameters
Gain 66
LFB 66
FX 66
Damping 64 or 32

 

I know it's probably hard to get every wheel feeling good, but from the cars feeling floaty and all over the place to planted with all the grip in the world is madness to me.
I use a Thrustmaster and in early access it felt perfect to me, so obviously the changes have been more FFB than anything else.
Surely though the difference shouldn't be so drastic in terms of actual driving feel?

 

Yes I use Gain 55, LFB 55, FX 55, Damper 0
Strange how putting all values the same feels spot on.

 

I don't think any sim is really finished at any given time. AC is kept alive due to modding which is fully in development, ACC is at a good point but could use some UX improvements in terms of driver changes and backend improvements, not mentioning the (hopefully) incoming new content. rF2 is far from finished. The majority of cars lack PBR and the UI is somehow still buggy after years of development, on top of the physics model is showing flaws that they need to fix/improve. iRacing is somehow still working on implementing flatspotting and weather, although I doubt we'll see any of that before 2050. iRacing really is the eternal promise in that regard. I'd say that AMS2 is at a healthy point in its development cycle right now and is already proving to be a great driving experience for players.

Every simracing forum has threads with people complaining about "fundamental issues with the sim" in one way or another and they're all filled with people posting YouTube links of real car handling vs ingame handling and pointing at other sims claiming the grass is greener.

Bottom line: no sim is perfect. Be happy we have competition between sims, otherwise we'd see no progression.

The main gripe I have with iRacing is not really the tyre model (even though it's clearly suboptimal), it's the constant promises of improvements which takes years/decades and are always postponed with the same ol' BS: "if we bring a feature we want to do it right". Which generally speaking a good attitude to have in life, but it implicates an elitist attitude that other sims somehow do it wrong and then they turn around and release their completely unrealistic TC/ABS systems that resemble nothing like the real systems (and I should know).

Oh and it bugs me the hell out they still don't support flat spotting.

 

For the love of Pete, what forum(s) have you been frequenting?!
I highly doubt Reiza can work(or should work...) with "opinions", only if there's at least a modicum of consent on a certain topic.
Consider that the barrage of dislike/disagree at your address may not just be the result of blatant fanboyism... Instead it may we'll be attributed to you pushing your highly subjective ideas on what AMS2 should be, in your opinion.
So Reiza should allocate all its efforts and resources toward competing in a well-established market, and fight to the death for sales/online-activity/steam-stats and the like...
I'm glad their scope on things extends well beyond a cold focus on market share, and the toll it would take on actually adding something worthwhile to simracing as a whole.
Renato has gone above and beyond to take the pulse of the community at large, and hear literally everyone that wanted to chime in.
You're not adding anything anymore by continuing to be argumentative here on perceived flaws, lacks and general direction of the sim.
I think you've well and truly been heard by now, and I'm putting you on ignore.

 

I've a question for everyone here.

What is the first thing you want to do after you fire up AMS2?

a) offline race vs the AI
b) online race
c) offline practice for a specific track+car combo
d) online practice for a specific track+car combo
e) race in the current offline championship
f) time trial
g) just try things out (track, car, weather, whatever)
​

Mine would be online race, but I'm unable to do that 99% of the time because there is so few people online... and then when the grid is full, the fun ends before the end of lap 1. Yesterday I was on an F3 server at Donington with 20 cars on the grid, my wet dream. Guess what happened? Before the end of lap 3 there was only half of the grid racing, before the end of lap 5 there were only 5 drivers left. This is my average online experience in AMS2 atm.

Then after that sort of frustration, I leave the lobby to try to do offline races. I enjoy open wheelers, so I setup some open wheel+track combo. AI is ultimately broken with any F1 that I've tried (already reported the details on the specific thread), same goes for F3. I've actually found that Formula Vee is quite a decent experience in some given conditions (track+weather), so I've been racing that. Anyway, overall feeling of racing offline is, currently, frustration.

If the AI is broken for the cars I enjoy, then there is no point in trying the championship mode, I skip that.

I've registered to some online leagues. Since random online lobbies are most of the time a waste of time, and AI is usually just as frustrating, I then go to practice offline/online for the league. But then there I am, just lapping around, no real competition. Feels okayish, but I want to compete.

I don't really enjoy much of time trial, so I rarely do that.

Finally I'm left with only one thing to do in AMS2: just try things out. Select a car, a track and the weather, do a few laps, get tired of that combo, repeat with another combo until I'm tired of doing that without any purpose at all.

Frustration is the dominant feeling so far.

But then the online league races start, and the AMS2 magic is back: great car+track combos, awesome graphics, unmatchable weather logic, and beautifully full grid. Everything feels amazing. That is until the bugs and lack of some features start kicking in. People getting dropped off the server randomly, ghosting, inability to restart sessions, inability to reorder the grid, etc. Netcode has improved, but as expected it is still an issue as in any other sim. So if you want to check out the replay to see what caused a crash, you have to deal with such a primitive system. Almost feels like the cassette and VHS tapes, where you had to rewind or go forward in a sequential manner to reach the point that you wanted. The frustration feeling is back.

That is my AMS2 experience so far. The thing is, the game feels and looks so good that I always come back, knowing that I will fire up it, redo all the steps I've mentioned, and soon enough leave frustrated as always. But I know there is a chance that one of those online league races will go smoothly, and I will have a very nice experience when that happens.