Automobilista 2 June 2023 Development Update

I normally don't use the arcade word because it means nothing. Look at your video and you will notice how little drama on the steering wheel for a car that is putting down roughly 850-900 hp. How the car surfs over the Variante Alta kerbs like nothing. You couldn't do anything like that in any subsequent generation of cars.
They were light, powerful, had very advanced suspensions that today are forbidden, TC (first concealed as an anti-knock device then fully legal), pretty advanced aero especially towards the end of their generation, tires were seriously pushed to the max through advanced research from manufacturers competition. Refueling was still allowed which meant some cars couldn't load more than 80-100 L making most of the races like extended qualis and cars even 200+ kg lighter than the current gen on occasion.
The 2001-2005 generation of F1 cars (and even up to 2008) was bonkers fast and stuck to the ground. It's just undeniable. And the proof is the longevity of many of their records despite running grooved tires.
Try and do the same with any post 2010 generation of F1.

 

Just to give an example... 2004 Bahrain GP vs 2023: +0.4s in quali, -3.8s in race trim.
That is 19 years of technology advancement and yet the race was bonkers faster in 2004.
Verstappen would have completed the 57 laps more than 5 minutes after Schumy with the 2023 car! 5 freaking minutes!

 

I'm expecting update 1.5 to be released in late August.
Hope for the best, expect the worst and you won't be disappointed.

 

How would the PAL intro of Gran Turismo 2 look if it came out today in the style similar to the original trailer ?
Song: The Cardigans - My Favorite Game (Faithless remix)

 

Yep, and without DRS, which I reckon should be worth up to a second in a track like Bahrain with 3 zones.

 

I believe that Karun Chandok was asked what were the most terrifying f1 cars he drove. I don’t know if he covered several decades of historic F1 period, but I believe that he drove cars from the 80s until current v6 hybrid era. He said that for him the most terrifying car was the Williams ( I cannot recall if it was 2003 or 2004), which he said was scarily fast on high speed corners due to aero and with incredible braking power due to light weight. He said he consciously had to fight his brain the urge to go slow on the corners because the car was so fast. Maybe arcade is a really understated assessment of this F1 era. Maybe with a lot of electronics helping in car control, but quickly scary, nervous behaviour and with a lot of precision required on driving inputs nevertheless.

 

Those cars were also very sensitive in the front end and the grip could wash up real quick, so it demanded extremely quick and precise steering inputs. Which is what we have in the Gen 2 in game. It has been one of the best AMS2 cars since at least 1.2.

Ettore's post merits a longer answer, and I'm not near a PC until the evening.

 

They had a severe lack of front bite. Look at Schumacher's video at Monza 2005 or even Suzuka 2002. The amount of steering input was insane and for how fast they were going there is little to no drama under acceleration. And Schumy was known to have an insanely pointy setup that only he could master.
The late 90s F1 were very pointy, but since they introduced the grooved tires the drivers started complaining about understeer heavily. Over the time they even increased the number of grooves at the front.

 

Which is more or less the origin of this debate? Can we lay that word to rest?

Being 2001, it's more like in the lower fringes of 800s. I see the driver hustling the car to fight the oscillations caused by the violent riding of kerbs, sawing the wheel midcorner (right at the start of the lap), restraining himself from adding more steering wheel at the apex to prevent washout, and unwinding the steering wheel faster than conventional exiting corners due to the back end reaching its limits. That may seem perfectly normal and planted to some, but to me, it's not like there are not issues nor drama, it's more a case of the driver doing a great job operating around the problems.

Yes, I know all of this. But this discussion stems from a comment that V10 Gen 2 is "arcade". In AMS2, Gen 2 represents the 2001 season. And it's a snapshot of 2001. So what this cars could achieved in 2004-2005 is not relevant. Yes, there was a massive step up on pace, there was big development on engines, there were tricks on wing flex starting to be played, there was a big tyre war. But those are the reasonings why the cars gained pace year after year.

And with regards of cars stuck to the ground being undeniable:

I will disagree. And if I looked for old Hockenheim footage, it would be worse, but it wouldn't be a fair comparison either, given the unique challenges of that round and how teams tackled it.

Those cars could power out of corners with the pedal to the metal without needing to unwind the steering wheel though, and in the case of the RBR, applying both DRS and KERS at the same time. That, if I'm gonna do some silly talk, is more arcade than the V10 era!

 

Nico Rosberg broke that pole record in 2016 in a generation of cars that is not held on a high regard.
Regarding the overall race laptime, you cannot do it unless there was not a single SC or VSC in a modern record. Compare the 2004 Suzuka laptimes and race overall length with the 2019 one, as the layout is the same, just the S/F line was moved.

 

When will the tech dev update be released? Didn’t you say it will arrive before pt2?

 

he said next week

 

He said the June dev update part 2 (July update) will arrive next week. I’m wondering when he will release the thread talking about the technical part of the update

 

2005 looks like a car setup for understeer in a LDF package, to compensate the lack of rear end that the F2005 was known to have, as all the regulation changes for that season were aimed at stopping Ferrari's reign. He drives it as smooth as he can, and it steps out twice on the footage, at second Lesmos (which he manages to catch) and Ascari (which he cannot control without a visit off track).
On the 2002 I don't see anything out of ordinary, but it's not the best of Michael's laps, considering he mastered the Suzuka esses like nobody else.
I think the difference in opinions comes from you fixating in how cars accelerate out of corners. Which I agree, they had formidable traction and they clawed on the tarmac more often than not. The problems of these cars came mostly in braking and turn in. This was at maybe it's worst (and most spectacular) at 2003, when they had another downforce cut. They would reach great top speeds but be a handful when braking into corners. Of course, teams got progressively on top of that, but at the season opener at Melbourne, it was something to behold!

The narrow cars and grooved tyres were introduced in 1998, with front tyres having 3 grooves. Those were increased to 4 in 1999 and stayed like that, making cars even trickier to drive. That single change drove Damon Hill crazy, and made him hang up his gloves.

 

The single laptime in hybrid cars that had free maps isn't telling most of the story. Check any race in the last few years. The 57 laps have been completed in anywhere between 4 and 12 minutes more than Schumy did depending on the year (which means Verstappen & C would have been lapped bewteen 3 and 8 times). The biggest reason, apart from possible occasional SCs is that the 2000s cars were having refueling and where racing in an almost quali trim, were hundreds of kilos lighter and had better tires that would not self destruct for the show. In other words, they had so much more grip performance.

 

To my knowledge it's 2002. Anyway that generation of cars was known not to be so sharp at the front due to the grooved tires, irrespectively of how fast they got from one year to the other. You can see comments in that sense in any broadcast from the time. That is what makes the difference between Gen 1 and Gen 2.
One final comment then I leave you to your beliefs: for the speed they go through the Variante Alta the car is surprisingly stable: they are literally throwing the car with all their force over the kerbs at well over 120 kph. The car doesn't jump at all and settles almost immediately after the kerb. There is literally no correction at all considering the normal see-sawing that comes from hitting the kerb itself.

 

Suzuka 2004 Winner Total Race Time: 1h 24m 26.985s
Suzuka 2019 Winner Total Race Time: 1h 21m 46.755s

2019 race was 2m40s faster, meaning that Bottas laps Schumacher past halfway.

Still, the fastest race ever is still 2003 Monza. Which is something I always like to use for pestering fans without memory who hail the 17-21 cars as the fastest racecars ever. "Sorry pal, fastest race ever is from 2003, that makes the V10 the fastest F1 racecars ever by definition".

Insert trollface here