Automobilista 2 March 2023 Development Update

Enlighten me.

 

The Pros & Cons of P2P Gaming
Taking in the information above, it’s evident that P2P gaming has both upsides and downsides that you should consider, whether you’re a gamer or a developer.

The pros:

• Removes the “server issues” problem in multiplayer sessions.
• A central server is costly. Relying on P2P is a massive sum saver for developers. Most indie games that have a multiplayer mode use P2P.
• Ideal for balanced data distribution.

The cons:

• Major security issues.
• The server or everyone on the connection needs to have a decent internet connection for the game to function properly.
• The data the player sends to others can be manipulated, making cheating easier.
• The “host” is basically in control of the session.
• Can only handle a limited number of players at once.

 

ByTheWay: Renato have recently admitted there are "difficulties" with the MP system in AMS2

Forgot the link to the quote above:
What is Peer-to-Peer Gaming, and How Does it Work? | VGKAMI

 

The PC2/AMS2 P2P system has been serviceable enough for casual lobbies, it's just a question of what AMS2 multiplayer needs to be.

If the goal is official, ranked, hourly races or eSports events, it needs a more robust system. If AMS2 MP will always be casual lobbies and leagues, there's no point in rebuilding the MP experience for the 30-40 players who are on at any moment. I would prefer the first option, but I know I'm in the minority who predominantly play multiplayer.

 

I do.

 

@DavidGossett
Personally I dont really care about the MP part of AMS2 because I only use the game in SP TT mode.
And if I want to get onboard of a serious MP system then I will reenable my iRacing membership.
BUT BUT have you seen the laughable bad experience some of the serious leagues have had when they tried to use AMS2 as a MP platform?
I respect these guys for their patience - but man the videos they made of these "events" is - yes - entertaining because the PtP caused connection is/was completely laughable.

ByTheWay: Do I have to add laughable bad?

 

I have plenty of experience in AMS2 leagues and in iRacing. Approx 600-700 races, I frequent at least 4-5 leagues the hold regular events, I still play iRacing occasionally as well. (Only for the RX content and to familiarize myself with the GR Cup car and tracks since I work for a GR Cup team. I'm 4300+ in the Dirt Road category.)

700ish races in AMS2 not counting the 1200 races I did online in PC2 with leagues years prior I think certainly qualifies me enough to speak about the quirks of the current system. Some of us enjoy the "racing" part of racing simulators. I love driving as much as the next person, but my preferred single player experience is either rallying, so I come to AMS2 to drive with other people.

The current P2P system normally works well enough for most leagues I've been in, even with additional telemetry and outside apps like Just Race. Most of the time, it works well enough. Net code issues aren't exclusive to P2P, I've had plenty of lagging, jumping, or overall glitchy experiences in iRacing as well. I distinctly remember car positions at iRX Charlotte bugging out 2-3 weeks ago and sending the position data of all cars 3 stories into the air at T1.

The current system is significantly better than it was at launch, you couldn't get within 2 car lengths without collision data glitches. Several of our leagues have a lobby with drivers from East Coast, West Coast, South America, and even Australia and the game was perfectly usable. I will say, when the game does glitch, it does it in dramatic fashion. One of our oval series races got ruined by the leader's car behaving like some quantum particle and taking up the entire track simultaneously.

My point is, what does Reiza want AMS2 MP to be? I'm fine with MP focusing on eSports or just staying a casual experience. If the current system stays, some additional features could help with running leagues.

Everyone acts like because of the Raycevick, EmptyBox, and Austin Ogonosky videos that all AMS2 multiplayer is some absolute cluster **** where cars get sent to space. It does occasionally happen, more frequently than I would like, but unfortunately so do other sims. Excuse the language, just the best way I could describe it.

Several of us actually enjoy the core MP experience, it just doesn't seem as well refined yet. I've had well fought battles, close rivalries, side by side action, etc. in this sim and thoroughly enjoyed it. I've also had times where it completely glitched out 45 minutes into an hour race and ruined a week of practice. For casual "pick up and play" racing, it's good enough, but if AMS2 is to grow on the MP side, it needs work.

All I ask is that whatever system they stick with, they add some extra "quality of life" improvements for league hosts. Manual grids, the ability to join the end of quali/practice, bug fixes, etc.

 

The only reason i keep it if for casual cruising in shotoko mod

 

I think they should allow external dedicated servers thought just so we can have LFM on AMS 2

 

I maybe a fresh face around the Madness lobbies in comparison...

I'm someone who came from rF2 for online and running F1 2020 and Dirt 2.0 for my SP experiences...

AMS2 is my main choice for fun now because of the way the cars have felt since 1.4...

I started with offline and trying to get the most out of it that way because of how bad the p2p connections were and how bad the word of mouth was about it... The feel between car and track just kept me coming back until I wanted more competition and higher stakes...

I've found the best way to enjoy AMS2 is in MP where the physics are identical as long as there's no cheats on the p2p system... The sprint races vs the AI are good, but they pale in comparison to the level of competition online and there's actually something at stake if I make a mistake... Not just the need to restart a race and have a happy field of AI cars waiting to restart with me...

In short it's actually worth jumping through the hoops to have fun online in AMS2, where I find less and less that the hoops to have a good time offline are worth it... Sprint races are fun, but then I can go to an open lobby and have more fun in the same sprint environment...

I've had so many great races in the DPi emulating proper stints and even 2.4 hour events... That a little polish to the current MP system could go a long way... But overall a redesign might be worth it to squash the bugs that ruin the experience in major ways...

 

and therein lies the major problem, all those here who use a wireless connection but hide the fact and blame the game.

 

I just found one of the videos I was refering to above.
And you are welcome if you say that these guys had just an unfortunate exception in this MP event.
You can also see why I said that the guys included in this event does show a lot of patience

Latest After skimming the video Im unsure if it was exactly this video where the PtP connection completely broke down. So I have taken the video out of my comment.
But if you want some entertaining then the mayhem happened on this Metz lobby.
Sorry I didnt take the time to find the exact event video

https://www.youtube.com/@metzVR

 

Not only wireless connections, but also buggy router firmware, flooded connection pools (e.g. from popular file sharing protocols), and some types of UDP traffic…

 

And with the p2p infrastructure all it takes in one bad connection and everyone suffers from it...

I've had public lobbies filled with all sorts of "hey sorry my internet is crap today they are doing work on it" or "sorry my other half is watching something on netflix" excuses... And as expected those races were complete crap with bad predictions for everyone, not just the one with the bad connection...

This is where dedicated servers are supposed to bring better connections as in other sims only the one driver with the bad ping would suffer lag, the rest of the field could race happily against each other... But in fact the dedicated server function in AMS2, even through Just Race, is actually worse than a p2p connection with far more lag on the same ping numbers... And worse still, when I race on a US or Euro based dedicated server my ping to others in Australia is far worse than it is on any other title as it is almost doubled...

When it's all working and everyone has good connections there's a tonne of great racing to be had online with AMS2... All it takes is one bad one and it all goes to hell...

 

Besides I've had the experience of the very same group of people racing in rF2 and in AMS2.

In rF2 the session was silk smooth, in AMS2 the session was a lagfest. Granted this happened 1 year ago or so, so things might have changed.

Overall, P2P is not suitable for fast paced games like racing, unless, ofc, our buddy @jtortosen would kindly explain to us why that would be a stupid thing to say.

 

P2P when all connections are within a region and nobody has big issues, the on track experience is as good as it gets. I race perfectly with a +200 ping at CASS league with most connections from North America. Problem is, it's very sensitive. I couldn't race there while my connection was aerial instead of fiber, but I could do it on iRacing or Assetto Corsa with zero issues. It wasn't until I upgraded my ISP that it was fixed. I would run Pingplotter and find package losses sporadically, and that changed with fiber connection. If it's P2P nature or a specific netcode issue within the game, I don't know.

 

To show that I dont really wanna get involved in a strong/hot discussion about the PtP solution in AMS2 then I have something else.
Because Im able to instead tell how extremely good and stable the ancient server/client solution was (and is) in NR2003.

Note: The online solution in NR2003 is a direct heritage from the archaic GPL - only slightly more advanced/revised.

For about 2 years I participated in a monthly online race in the US based NR2003/GTP league (FSB).
And there was NEVER any problems in the about 15-20 races!
Eventhough people participated from US, Canada, South America, West and East Europe.
Take that any PtP connection.

ByTheWay: The final proof that such an old server/client solution is more stable than other solutions is here: Because I finished my glorious international online race career (joke ) by being 3rd in the ultimately last Brasilian based 2.4H LeMans race (Using NR2003/GTP mod).
With participation from Brazil, Brazil, US, Canada and Denmark (+ Sweden?).
And eventhough Im sure the Reiza guys will be able to tell how poor the internet is in Brazil - then the 2.4H race was executed without any connection issues.
ANY!
Hehe just to brag a bit then here is the starting grid (#3 moi).

 

idk if this has been shared on forums yet but AMS2 CONTENT MANAGER IS ON ITS WAY GitHub - stefan-girlich/ams2-content-manager: An unofficial content manager for AMS2

 

Oh wow, nice! I have been "afraid" of mods because I am a bit challenged when it come to things like that. This sounds awesome, thanks for posting.

 

Is that a replacement for JSGME?