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Automobilista 2 March 2024 Development Update

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, Mar 16, 2024.

  1. CatAstrophe05

    CatAstrophe05 The Andrea De Cesaris of simracing

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    So moving on given it was mentioned, anyone been maining the RX content lately? Maybe it's the fact that RBR has had me gripped by the throat for a fair while now but I've really been enjoying driving that as of late, the Polo and DS3 in particular are absolute riots to drive on the limit

    ByTheWay ;): About time! Finally, some peace from the forum's #1 most irritating user
     
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  2. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Administrator Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Leave it be please, we don't need any talks about other users here either!
     
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  3. Racinglegend1234

    Racinglegend1234 AMS2 wiki founder AMS2 Club Member

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    I would've liked if there were longer RX stages or a rally stage. I prefer Rally over Rallycross
     
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  4. CatAstrophe05

    CatAstrophe05 The Andrea De Cesaris of simracing

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    Nordschleife '71 makes for a pretty solid approximation to a tarmac rally stage :whistle:
     
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  5. Racinglegend1234

    Racinglegend1234 AMS2 wiki founder AMS2 Club Member

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    True, but I would prefer an offroad one
     
  6. Lucifer_sam

    Lucifer_sam Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Yes, go right ahead!
     
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  7. Joaquim Pereira

    Joaquim Pereira Well-Known Member

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    That's not a problem. We still have only (let's simplify, either way a jet fighter has more controls than a racing car) a steering wheel, brake and gas (1 variable each) to control the car (left-right, slower, faster). We do control the car in a two dimensional space.
    No need for RX to go 3D, we both know how detrimental or benign a sausage curb can be :D:D:D, Ai will learn that in a blink of an eye.
    I've heard, once or twice, CrewChief saying "Is faster the other way around!" :oops::D
    (what happened to "Are you OK?!!??" :cool:)
     
  8. Joaquim Pereira

    Joaquim Pereira Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to mention this, about the "too well" part...
    In last year's Red Bull Ring F1 race, they commented about the way all drivers approach the 1st corner, taking much more of the kerb (on the left), a behaviour they considered introduced by those on the grid with simracing experience (I believe they talked about Verstappen and Lando starting this habit). They notice that approach was not usual a few years ago.
    Here, the videos of Bota's pole lap in 2018 and Max's pole lap in 2023.
    The point been, we are intelligent beings but we mostly copy/learn from others and innovation mostly cames from outsiders, those who are not (yet) formated or see the world differently.
     
  9. The_Neo_One

    The_Neo_One AMD Ryzen 5 5600X

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    Guys, regarding the new UI that's is coming, is there a dedicated topic or will be a dedicated topic for feedback/wishes/user input? Personally, I don't have much problems with the current UI, but a bit more of information about the cars at car selection screen would be nice. Specially information that can affect your driving style. For example, if a car has sequential shifter, it would be great to know if it is a sequential or paddle shifter. If the car has auto blip, auto engine cut off, ABS and etc all this is good information and can affect driving style in some extention, and aren't always showed on the current UI.
     
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  10. Marius H

    Marius H Internal Beta Tester Staff Member AMS2 Club Member

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    To be fair the thing is that RBR/DR1 has spoiled me too much. That said I love racing in circuits in AMS2. While I appreciate the WRX-content in AMS2 I truly think tarmac/gravel hillclimb would have suited the game more. However, to conclude I think it's a great learning progress & a dip in the guacamole for my colleagues for a Reiza Rallye Sim.
     
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  11. Danielkart

    Danielkart Well-Known Member

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    The introduction of rally cars was very bold on Reiza's part. This is a completely different genre and requires some adjustments. In my opinion there could be more like this, I love Rally. There could certainly be improvements for these cars and tracks. In particular, the faster and more direct steering would be good for the delayed response behavior of Rally and the forces would also have to be adjusted. I also don't know whether these (rally) cars have their own physics or whether they are based on the other Reiza cars. It would be interesting to know
     
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  12. McNeil00

    McNeil00 Member

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    What will we get this weekend? An easter egg or an april fool?
     
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  13. lunamoon

    lunamoon Active Member

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    The Sudschleife is pretty much a rally stage :D drive it with an RX car and you're gonna have a blast, highly recommend it! the first sector is really awesome, the only part I think it's not super rally-ish is the circuit bit, everything else is 100% a rally stage, and it even looks the part in game haha.

    Careful not to hit any cows though :p
     
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  14. Divit Beria

    Divit Beria Prefer modern cars

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    This is probably not on the agenda at all but are there any plans in the future (if possible at all) to consolidate game files somehow and reduce the overall game size? I do know theres a content manager coming which will allow us to just keep the content we want but is the overall size gonna be reduced at any point? I've seen some other games do it but obviously all game engines are different.
     
  15. Horia M

    Horia M Reephur

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    That video is the result of a 2-year long effort undertaken by 3 major collaborating teams (with god knows how many thousands upon thousands of man-hours), using a training infrastructure that had access more than a thousand PS4's to decrease training time. Sophy is by all accounts a marvel of computer science and a literally ground breaking AI system. And that video wasn't even a fully trained model, but merely one iteration built for one track, with one car, that worked well enough to present it to the public. Don't forget the final model as we have it in the game was released 1.5 years after that. That video is the proof that while yes, technically possible, the effort required to develop a racing ML model is absolutely titanic. If you want to learn more about the gargantuan efforts check out their official site, it's worth a read: TECHNOLOGY | Gran Turismo Sophy (gran-turismo.com)

    Tbf my original message was quite cut down because I got a bit lazy to write :rolleyes:

    Yes also this :D. While complex, AMS2's physics simulations are definitely a step above in complexity compared to Gran Turismo (which itself is also very detailed!), which means an exponentially longer training time should you use it for such an environment.

    The number of variables an ML needs to account for is unfathomably larger than a human (technically) needs to process. In such a dynamic environment, an ML needs access to basically everything that is even remotely changeable. And by everything, I mean... everything. Car yaw, car pitch, car roll, X Y Z coordinates of car, wheel angle x 4, wheel pitch x 4, spring state x 4, tyre state x 4, tyre wear x 4, brake state x 4, brake temp x 4, tyre temp x 4, ARB state x 4, distance to next corner, angle of next corner, camber of next corner, car speed, track temp, air temp... I can go on and on and on and on. And many of these variables I've simplified for the sake of example. Spring state e.g. would probably be a combination of several other variables. Even the wheel angles you speak about, you're going to need accuracy to the point +10 decimal points. And all these variables need to be processed for each fraction of a millisecond. It is genuinely unfathomable.

    But because of the nature of ML, you need all that information to ensure that the system knows exactly its state, at all times, and that it takes the appropriate action. Even Sophy is trained on a per car per track basis. Sophy (obviously) cannot drive on tracks or cars it hasn't been trained for. Not even driving a different car on the same track. For each unique combination you need a whole new training session (albeit not completely from scratch, but nevertheless incredibly time and process consuming). I couldn't even begin to imagine adding human randomness to that whole ocean of variables.

    So yeah, Sophy is a massive accomplishment and an absolute breakthrough in terms of machine learning - hell, it was on the cover of Nature magazine when the initial publication came out. But people saying "oh just let the AI run overnight and we'll get human-like driving :)" really irk me and undermine the titanic efforts of the teams behind Sophy (and other ML models as well).
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2024
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  16. Horia M

    Horia M Reephur

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    Along with this, I'd honestly like to see a very overlooked and underrated feature: a snippet of text describing the car, its history and its features. I know this isn't done much nowadays in sims (only one I can think of is AC and even those are kinda bland), but with AMS2's focus on historical content, I think some context behind the car you're about to drive and its history would get you excited and interested to learn more :D
     
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  17. deekracer

    deekracer Active Member

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    Would love this! It is important info that helps us how to differentiate between one set of tech specs and the next. Context matters!
     
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  18. Joaquim Pereira

    Joaquim Pereira Well-Known Member

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    @Horia M I really don't want to take this discussion further, I'm not an AI specialist, just a guy watching (although, closely) this evolution in the past decade, but I think it doesn't need all that info - the AI only needs to know what we also have, some of the resulting forces acting on the car, slip rate, yaw rate,etc, not the individual forces, not spring rates, etc.
    Keep in mind, it's a technology evolving not at exponential rate but it's more like a exponential on a exponential graph.
    Also consider the software and tools are evolving at an amazing rate (I don't like to use words like amazing often, but it really is). Here's the evolution AlphaGo's Go elo and necessary hardware (AlphaGo was the major breakthrough in AI neutral networks field 10 years ago should see the movie, is on YT)

    upload_2024-3-28_23-33-11.png
    upload_2024-3-28_23-24-44.png

    BTW, Sophy 2.0 is out.
     
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  19. DavidGossett

    DavidGossett Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    The true gem in that pack is the Cross Kart. It's tricky to understand, but it's probably the most detailed version of those in sim-racing so far. The DR2.0 version isn't terrible on gravel, but the tires instantly regain grip after sliding on tarmac. Meanwhile, the AMS2 version feels much more detailed, not just in the tires or surface behavior, but specifically in how you interact with the gearbox.

    IMHO, the suspension movement animations are still a bit muted in comparison how these look IRL, but setup could play a huge part in it as well.

    Watch Enholm's car(t) nose while braking.
    https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxKiUrFHp9OBeAtatEBO1fu0F9lkQ8eqfK?si=ry2_OdoPpOK32P8B
     
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  20. Gabriel "Pai" Legnini

    Gabriel "Pai" Legnini Well-Known Member AMS2 Club Member

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    Agreed, Kart Cross is just awesome.
     
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