Automobilista 2 October 2022 Development Update

Fair enough. No use in speculating because we're not seeing the F-USA 22 anytime soon. IndyCar's statement just confirms they're doubling down on the MSG title. Still, it's a bad move after a series of bad moves for IndyCar. This is a certified "we have F1 at home moment."

 

Now that the rFactor 2 2022 pack is complete and available I made a list out of interest to compare it to the AMS2 season pass (not complete and not fully available):

rFactor 2 2022 pack with full price: 99.99 euros.

Tracks:
GP: Bahrain
Indy: Gateway
Indy: Laguna Seca
Endurance: Daytona road and oval course
FE: London
UK: Thruxton
UK: Croft
UK: Donington Park
UK: Brands Hatch

Cars:
OpenWheel: Dallara INDYCAR IR-18
Prototype: Vanwall Vandervell LMH
Endurance: Ligier JS P320
GT: BMW M4 GT3
GT: Porsche GT3 Cup 992
BTCC: Vauxhall Astra
BTCC: BMW 330i M Sport BTCC
BTCC: Hyundai i30
BTCC: Ford Focus
BTCC: Infiniti Q50
BTCC: Toyota Corolla
Vintage: Mini

So all in all 9 track locations and 12 cars.



AMS2 Season pass with full price: 89.99 euros, but sometimes discounted by nearly 50%

Tracks:
GP: Hockenheim Pack featuring 1975, 1988, 2001, 2020
GP: Silverstone Pack featuring 1975, 1991, 2001, 2020
GP: Nurburgring Pack featuring GP, Nordschleife & 24h layouts
GP: Spa-Francorchamps Pack featuring 1970, 1993, 2020, 2022
GP: Monza Pack featuring 1971, 1991, 2021
Endurance: Daytona
Indy: Laguna Seca
Indy: Long Beach
Indy: Cleveland
Indy: Watkins Glen
Indy: Road America
Indy: Indianapolis
Indy: Fontana
Indy: Gateway


Cars:
OpenWheel: Reynard 95i
OpenWheel: Lola T95
OpenWheel: Reynard 98i
OpenWheel: Swift 009c
OpenWheel: Lola T98
OpenWheel: Reynard 2Ki
OpenWheel: Lola B2K/00
Prototype: Cadillac DPi-V.R
GT: BMW M8
GT: Corvette C8.R
GT: Porsche 991 RSR

So 14 track locations (I include historic versions etc, so I get 25 tracks) and 11 cars. This is today!

We know that we will get at least 6 Formula cars, 3 street cars, 1 track pack and 3 historic track versions as well so that brings us at least to at least:

15 track locations (I include historic versions etc, so I get ca 31 tracks) and 20 cars minimum.

This is a much sweeter deal than rFactor 2 pass is right now (number of cars and tracks) especially considering you get more content today, including historic content and its sometimes discounted.


iRacing tracks and cars are 12-15 USD a piece so you can get ca 9 items (cars or tracks at 20% discount) for ca 100 USD.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Not like having the car in any other game is gonna make people play it, the Indycar chassi isn't exactly an exclusivity to MSG no matter how hard they try, modders will always exist and the car is already available in multiple games. As for why it hasn't come out yet, we only found out the end of this whole licensing deal today. There's still time for them to release the car, maybe they were trying to get the license for it but it didn't work out, who knows? My point is there is zero reason why they would not be able to release the car, just like they did with the F-Ultimate cars we got. Maybe like @Dylan Hale said, they likely won't be able to charge for it (as they didn't with F-Ultimate), but I could still see it happening

 

Remember, Codies are the sole rights holders for Formula 1 video games and they have a lot of money. If there is a lawsuit they think they can win that'll also boost their sales they'll do it

 

The license agreement was signed last summer and imagine you have spent a ton of money
on Iracing and all of their IndyCar content, how likely are you going to buy IndyCar 2023? If AMS2 was able to release Formula USA 22 with all the tracks we now have, no shot I would even consider buying MSG's IndyCar 23.
MSG can't control modders but they can try and control other games with their exclusive license agreement such as they have with Iracing.

 

That's a question for Renato, none of us know the legal issues behind that. It could be completely fine given all of the fictionalized cars in the game already, or it could be a massive risk given it sounds like MSG are willing to go after players for merely streaming private events with their cars.

Edit: I would figure it wouldn't be an issue if we already have the F-Ultimate 22. If anybody would sue, Codies and F1 would have the legal means to do it.

 

I can't agree. If you release the car for free, its still included in the purchase price of the base game so you can say its been charged for.

Most probably the F1 licence is not on the cards for Reiza in the next 5 years (or never?), so might as well release the F Ultimate Gen2. However, there might be possibilities with IndyCar in the next couple of years. IndyCar is owned by Roger Penske, who also owns Indianapolis and the rights to Penske cars (Emerson Fittipaldi). This is maybe why we saw the inclusion of Indianapolis at such short notice. If there is a future to be had with Roger Penske's organization, its unlikely they will release the car. But this is just speculation, so could be untrue.

 

That is my line of thinking as well! My point is we'll have to wait and see. Nothing so far seems to point there would be a problem with releasing an unrelated Indycar-like car in the game, as we have seen with previous series already in the game. But we can't really know for sure. All this guessing doesn't really amount to anything, but I mean, what else are we going to do between updates anyways?

 

The devil is always in the details when it comes to contracts and license agreements. I don't think any of us are qualified to know what the difference between codies contract with F1 and MSG with IndyCar and also just because someone might have the legal grounds to sue, doesn't mean that they have to or will. Again I think MSG is in a much different position than codies and can not have another failed game come out next year so they are being much more aggressive.

 

The thing is their game will probably fail regardless of stifling competition or not. Just look at their Nascar game. It doesn't matter that no one else can produce a Nascar game, their game is such hot garbage it failed all on its own and I don't expect their IndyCar game to go any differently.

 

That is the worst part is that we (sim racers) are the ones that have to suffer for others trying to make more money.

 

Totally agree. It's always us the consumers that suffer from inept organizations leadership. I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. Suits ruin everything.

 

For those who want more info on the whole IndyCar license situation, check out Marshall Pruett's twitter space discussion. There are people involved in the IndyCar paddock discussing the whole situation and it's really enlightening.

 

To be fair, the licence deal was signed in 2021!? It is only with hindsight we can say that the MSG deal was probably not a great call.

 

Amazing to listen too honestly

 

Marshall Pruett alluded to a key member of IndyCar's ownership group being obsessed with the "Motorsport" brand. Joking that said person probably has a tattoo or would "buy a Motorsport branded steak or go to Motorsport University."

Christopher Wheeler stated that IndyCar didn't really consider sim-racing important to their brand and often didn't give iRacing the development resources they needed to be on par with efforts from NASCAR or other series. Basically stating that the pandemic official series was the first that the series saw potential in sims.

Meanwhile, Conor Daly blatantly sticking it to IndyCar with Tony Kanaan both running an iRacing Twitch stream literally after the announcement. For as much as Conor was critical of iRacing's tire model (I'm still critical of iRacing's tire model), he is at least sticking up for that community against the whole exclusivity deal.

 

I still have hope for the Formula USA 2022... But we'll know in the next few days likely. In the meantime, I'll be extreamly pissed off at Indycar...

 

Any executive agreeing to an exclusivity deal is brain dead. They literally make no sense. There is nothing stopping IndyCar from working with a developer to get their own sim while also licensing out their stuff to multiple companies. They are literally choosing the dumbest route by trying to force all their licensing through one single entity. The fact that they chose at the time an unproven company is even more mind blowing.

 

Nothing surprising here. Indycar has always, always been poorly managed. The whole history of open wheel racing in the US is so full of stupid decisions that it's a miracle there still is an Indycar series at all. I hoped, when Penske bought the series, that things would turn around, but nope. Still a lot of stupid decisions. No wonder F1 is now bigger than Indy in the USA. Say what you want about Liberty Media (and there are many bad things to say about them), but they know how to market their series.

(Just read the excellent "Indy Split" book by John Oreovicz. He focuses on the IRL/CART war, but there are also chapters about previous conflicts within the sport.)

 

The big difference is that F1 has enjoyed a big growth of popularity in the USA, whereas Indycar is stagnating, even if they have American drivers and, overall, better racing. They haven't really been able to take advantage of NASCAR's relative decline.

One quick example: there are articles in the NY Times about F1 on a regular basis. But nothing about Indycar all season long, except *maybe* for the 500. That's Indycar's big problem: it focuses so much on the 500 that people think there isn't a full season and that it's just Indianapolis.