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Automobilista 2 V0.8.7.1 RELEASED!

Discussion in 'Automobilista 2 - News & Announcements' started by Renato Simioni, May 2, 2020.

  1. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Let's try to have a reasonable investigation focusing one element. First, do I think every car in AMS 2 is amazing or "finished?"--no. But let's look at the F-Classic G1-M1:
    • Are you saying that with it's huge turbo lag and burst of power at high-rpms it is a stable car to drive on the limit?
    • Are you saying that it has unrealistic levels of down force?
    • Are you using default boost pressure (60%) or cranking it up (to qualifying levels or just higher because we can)?
    My experience is that it can be spun easily at lower speeds if you are keeping it on the boil and needing to manage the power curve as you corner. Does it spin in a high-speed corner--no, why would it with the massive level of down force that car has? It will almost spin in a straight line, even at default boost pressure levels, when you take advantage of higher rpms.
    • In real life and in the game, these cars put out shockingly little power even at 9 ,000 or 10,000 rpm--very easy to drive
    • They were designed to handle 1,100+ hp, so you would expect it to behave extremely well at anything less than 10/10ths--otherwise no one would (be able to) drive one in anger flap after lap
      • Reminds me of GPL days...I loved GPL for so many reasons, but no one would actually drive a car that bad in real life (the ones we have in AMS 2 are scary enough, but feel 1,000 times more plausible than GPL)
    • This car is one that even in a sim experience makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and you realize how talented the drivers of that era were
      • H-pattern to deal with
      • Massive turbo lag
      • Massive power
      • Massive down force
      • Incredible levels of mechanical grip
      • ...I am sure you are a faster sim racer than me, but if you find this car easy to drive at the limit, then you should consider real racing because you are alien level in our little world here
    So, please, describe in a bit more detail where this car is at fault physics-wise. I don't doubt it might be need tweaking (along with all cars in the game), but I fail to see where it is fundamentally flawed.
     
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  2. Frank Alexandre

    Frank Alexandre New Member Reiza Backer

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    Same for me.
     
  3. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    The car catches itself magically, without even any response by steering or much driver inputs, when you go over the limit or kick the throttle. Keep the wheel straight, release some throttle (or even add a good chunk), it will do the job by itself. Yes, sounds quite understandable for wide tyres, turbo lag and mechanical grip in slow sections and high aero in fast sections. It's just happening with an On/Off switch, not gradually.
    This has nothing to do with "alien level", it was refering to this bold statement:
    I'm not the only user, experiencing this and what you're asking for right now, has been described already 100 times in all the physics discussions.

    You mean torque, i assume?

    So when it's all about low torque, power, high downforce, turbo lag, etc.
    why are the Copa Classic so much tamer and more lifeless? I'm aware of all the factors, making many older, wide tyres, turbo engine cars more tame on the thresold of grip. I'm not complaining about the F-Classic in AMS1 for example and you can make it REALLY easy to drive, by setup.

    Have you actually looked at telemetry of any car in this game? Have you seen the too high lateral acceleration in the traction circle of some?^^ Caterhams were an example (honestly asked, because it was suspicious)

    @Avoletta1977 was the Cateham car labeling off for that department of tyres, too? (just asking to avoid misconception)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    Well, I can't say whether an F-Classic is truly authentic because like you, I have never driven one. But it sure doesn't seem inauthentic in terms of behaviour or grip, particularly in the rain/wet. Maybe there is slightly too much grip in the dry, but that wasn't the point of my questions. Can you drive it at 10/10ths (as in qualifying or a very competitive race) without feeling any concern or that it requires a lot of skill? Are you using the 250 hp deduction of the default boost, or the full boost when you do it? The car is a handful to drive (for me) and I can easily spin it trying to accelerate to quickly or too aggressively out of corners. That's what I would expect and that's what I get.

    If it behaved like it had some aids turned on or had "magic" grip or braking, I would complain. So, sure, it miht benefit from a small tweak to reduce some grip or down force, but it's not in the category of "fake news" based on my expectations.

    I have no idea what the issues are with the Copa Classics from your description? Are they boring to drive compared to an F-Classic? Umm, yes! Are they lifeless?--not at all. Try driving them on a tricky, narrow track like Cadwell Park.
     
  5. TekNeil

    TekNeil Take me back to the 2.4l, twin 50 weber days...

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    Urgh...On the one hand you have people starting topics saying these (And other) cars are impossible to drive, and then topics like this saying they are impossible to spin.
    Let's see some video's on the ragged edge.

    And at the end of the day I'm pretty sure none of us here have driven one of these, so who's to say what they feel like with their particular chassis, especially when it comes to caster/toe/roll center regards self centering etc.
     
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  6. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    Well, it's not fully ragged edge (on default boost), i already have beaten the fastest time in this sequence (1:16.5) by far (with 1:15s), but:

    I basically floor it out of most slow sections, the car stabilizes itself like turning a switch and rocketships. (Default boost) EDIT: Look at Timestamp 0:29, it's already visible there. I'm opening up throttle, ready for a kick out, but the car just goes stable, i'm already up to proactively open up the steering and go off throttle, but the awaited rear kickout wasn't coming at all so i even ended up in understeer and using more steering look, as if the diff was fully open (it wasn't).
    Default and high. More power output does weaken the described behaviour but it's still more than recognizable. (That's why i always talk about to high resistance in some occasions)

    Surprisingly i did. I drive Cadwell quite often. Now compare it to the ride in AMS1 and tell me, it's really astonishing.^^ They are boring to drive in comparison to a Copa Classic in AMS1, that's what i was saying.
    You're even twisting my words. You don't want to get to a solution here, you seem just to want to defend something here mate.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  7. Hector

    Hector New Member

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    Several times I tried running half the race in a "normal" way (taking care of the tires, trying not to accelerate disproportionately, braking on the correct marks etc etc).

    That way I am with average times but ...

    The second half of the race forced everything to make the car oversteer and then correct (a totally abnormal and irrational way of driving).

    In this way I manage to significantly improve the times.

    Actually I "cheat" to win, I do not like this type of physics at all, the problem comes from beta 1 and was never corrected.
     
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  8. TekNeil

    TekNeil Take me back to the 2.4l, twin 50 weber days...

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    I've paused the video, will watch it tomorrow/today...It's just gone 6am here and I don't know why I'm still awake. :(.
    PS: Hector, that's not abnormal at all (For some I suppose) :-/ That's how I've always driven in real life, that's just normal to me...Maybe not 'as much' in newer, more modern stuff like GT3Reee.
     
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  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    This is basically, how you be fast and it's not really wrong, because you don't baby a vehicle. Even in a 6hp rental indoor kart, you are doing everything, to keep that thing rotaty all the time, or the wall says hello. In this regard try to lower the power ramp angle on the diff a tad, increase rear Anti Roll Bars and be agressive.

    No worries, you're not cheating to win with that ;)
    Regarding the overstable cars in AMS2, i'm with you though. It's also too confidence inducing. I mean, it's not wrong...it motivates you to push, to hustle the sh** out of the cars and it rewards for finding the sweet spot in aggressiveness. It just doesn't punish very much.
    No problem :D Actually you can see my described behavior already, when i exit to the straight, out of the pits (the fast lefthander exit turn at timestamp 0:29). I open up the throttle and the rear tyres start screaming hardly (normally an indicator, they will break lose, starting to spin soon), i was awaiting to kick the car to a high angle of attack sideways, ready to do something proactively, but it's basically rocketing on rails. This effectively shows also in the 3rd timed lap out of slow turns. The car was alive, indeed, it doesn't behave "wrong", it just behaves, as if it stabilizes itself on a switch.

    Like mentioned, it's all on default boost and it's not the actual version of the game, right now, but the behaviour is basically the same now, the tyres just start peaking earlier now (luckily).

    The 1:16 lap wasn't even fast. On the limit, the car starts going a tad sideways, keeping momentum and you can drive it like a maniac on throttle, smashing it without spinning...and it's fast.

    "A handful" is, what the Stock Car Brasil are to drive on edge (Actually they're faster in AMS2, but also rotaty as hell in default), but the F-Classic Gen1 M1 right now is pretty tame to control.^^

    "It feels like the golden setup from the gods". When a racing driver would drive this car IRL, he would probably want more rotation, but nevertheless praise it, because it feels just settled in any occasion.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  10. Ernie

    Ernie Active Member Reiza Backer

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    Fantastic work on the new FFB, guys. :hurrayreiza:
    Feels great on my DD2. And i don't have to mix any LFB and FX into the FFB. Feels good with LFB and FX zeroed-out.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  11. Kentaro Taniuchi

    Kentaro Taniuchi Member Reiza Backer

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    I uploaded a video on V0.8.7.1 Review.
    Make sure to smash subscribe. I will make more informative video. Thank you. Stay safe.
     
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  12. ayrtonforever

    ayrtonforever Active Member Reiza Backer

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    so we have to change min force value from 0.1 to 1.0 or something else? or it's ready to go as is? i'm still trying to find better settings for my G29
     
  13. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    I was trying Time Trial on Interlagos with the modern Stock Car Brasil right now.
    For all guys with problems of overrotation of this car i can say:
    YES they are pretty edgy on the limit, has something changed?:confused:

    You can cure it a bit by increasing diff coast ramp angle and decreasing power ramp angle. Also pre-load about 80-90 and rear ARB around 10.
    Also increasing the bumpstops one click on the front and decreasing it one click at the rear helps. Same procedure for slow bump and rebound.

    THIS car is a handful.
    Btw. @Heitor Facuri Cicoti are you holding back some pace, or something? Normally i can't get somewhere near to your laptimes! :D

    Also i tried the F-Classic Gen1 M1 on Interlagos at full boost and 3 laps in TT. My described problem is still there.

    The car breaks lose and is more "edgy" do drive under full boost (man, the speeed :D ), you can't floor it fully out of slow turns, because of wheelspin (so that's awesome), but it somewhat catches itself easily.

    The understeery behaviour should be "historically" correct, though, according to the information about this car by the devs. The tendency to catch itself, though...i don't know.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Well-Known Member Reiza Backer

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    I won't waste time replying if you are going to make accusatory comments. But as a parting comment, unfortunately, we don'y yet have the proper pedal input indicators in the HUD--nevertheless you were not flooring the throttle in slow corners as I suspected. Otherwise the car would have been backwards or off the track. You were managing the car with the throttle and steering combined--as in real life. It is pretty easy to stay in control when you floor a car designed for 1200 hp when it is producing only a third to half of that amount, which is the case most of the time coming out of corners as we row through the gears with this car. And, no, I do not need another smart-ass comment about torque versus power. We don't say a torque-ful car in common language and you and I both know power is simply a (consistently) calculated function of torque, so it makes no difference which one you use in this context.
     
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  15. Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    Heitor Facuri Cicoti Good Member Staff Member Reiza Backer

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    @CrimsonEminence, I haven't spent much time for this combo in TT, but it was a fast lap comparing to what I'm usually doing with Stock Car at Interlagos. Almost default setup also. But I doubt I would get near the laptimes I could get in AMS1. That's not an easy car. I'm having a lot of fun with Sprint Race and Super V8 :), so Stock Car got a bit out of the way.

    Regarding pushing cars to the limit, we need to tell which one at which track if we want to point something. I thought SlowPoke80's first comment was weird, because man, there were a handful of spins when I pushed too much in my TT attempts. Crimson's combo is a good way to point that out. Right at the 0:29 I would say it just understeered sooner than the rear would get loose. The rest of the video makes me think the car is veeery understeering prone. I will test it a bit when I have some time. But what if you make it oversteery in the setup? Both mechanically and aerodynamically (softer front ARB, harder rear ARB / more front wing, less rear wing). Does it get closer to what you expect?
     
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  16. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence CrimsonCringeLord Reiza Backer

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    It felt "strange", as if a traction control was keeping me on rails, a bit like the F-V10 in AMS1 with TC on "High".

    The tendency to understeer ("keeping it away from the wall") should be the case, according to Renatos historic car guide. The understeer weakens more under higher boost with same setup it also doesn't feel that severely understeery. It's more of a "excessively stable/on rails", until it cracks into a slide, that recovers in a very spontaneous way when going off throttle.
    Doing mentioned things and decreasing diff ramp angle on power and lowering the rear wing indeed makes it already more "kicky", as expected, but it tends even more to get into this "on&off" condition, when the slide starts. It gets better with 100% boost, when the car develops crazy acceleration, but still just black&white. I go on throttle-> car throws itself a bit sideways, i go off throttle-> car almost immediately stabilizes. (Even on lower speeds, when aero isn't that effective)

    EDIT: I have now made it even more exessively oversteery by setup, it seems, now it kicks out (100% boost). Now it's unsaveable, though, no chance of recovery. :D
    So this is indeed believeable (regarding the crazy values), maybe a bit more lively default setup would do the overall impression some favour, because this is WAY better right now!! (When tweaked to a reasonable amount) :)

    EDIT2: I like to emphasize, that i don't mean, that "unsaveable" is good. I'm just referring to the finding of an actual setting, that transforms the car! ^^'

    I don't even know, if that makes sense, or natural, but i definetly understand the reports of these cars about feeling a bit off or less refined than AMS1.^^

    I was flooring (also it was default boost in the video yes)...i was now driving a 1:13 with full boost on Interlagos and the mentioned problem is still there slide on&off on a switch. It gets better with more power, but is still noticeable.

    It wasn't a "smart ass" comment, btw. it was a question. It's basically, what Formula 1 engines in the 80s and 90s are pretty known for, to be less torquey in the downrange.
    You can decide, to be grumpy with me now, or whatever.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  17. SlowPoke80

    SlowPoke80 Member

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    @Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    I should have been a bit more clear. The cars will still spin around when being too reckless out of hairpins (as well they should, as their wings are stalled at very low speed), but any slide under power with aerodynamics in effect will always be saveable.

    I have a specific example for you to try:

    Just play around '72 Imola in both sims with the '69 F1 cars. You'll notice a huge difference.

    In AMS 2, you will see that, in normal driving, it is extremely hard to keep the cars straight compared to the same ones in AMS 1. However, the slides are always saveable, provided it isn't affected by the slow-speed aero stall out of a very tight corner. The same cars in AMS 1 will stay much straighter under power, but there is a tipping point when a slide can't be saved.
     
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  18. MacBear8

    MacBear8 New Member

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    I have found I quite annoying bug (was present in 0.8.4.x and is still present in 0.8.7.1). When I race a single race and then choose to race the same race again (restart session) the after race menu is frozen when race have ended and there are no way to get out of the it, except rebooting the computer.

    Another minor bug that I have found is that the opponent Beetles sometimes lack fenders except when they brake, then the fenders appear when the breaklights are lit.

    Otherwise I love the game and the new time-trial mode is really good
     
  19. Martin Vindis

    Martin Vindis Member Reiza Backer

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    Is there anything I can do about the FFB under braking. My G27 is making a lot of noise without even being close to locking up. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the FFB.
     
  20. Robbb74

    Robbb74 New Member

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    There are enough games with tons of content, only half developed. So maybe it is better to make todays content as perfect as could be and expand from there on.
    Maybe put in a few european tracks to convince european gamers to get into this game, and after that expand the number of cars..

    Just my opinion..
     

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