Automobilista 2 V1.2.0.0 & Racin´ USA Pt1 RELEASED - Now Updated to V1.2.1.4

This is a nice bit of detective work and I love the phrase setupmanialand! Im finding though that the Formula Trainer is behaving pretty well for a zero downforce (excluding any minor ground effect) car. A lot of those lower formula (and lower downforce) cars behave pretty reasonably from what I would expect. The issue is so pronounced, so independent of game master settings ref assists, and focussed on such a select few cars, that Im hopeful investigations will continue and be successful. In changing conditions, especially from dry to wet, its quite important to be able to adjust TC and ABS, and to experience the consequences of that in cars for which the capability exists (more so online as offline issues exist with ai pace in the wet, but thats another story).

I guess in summary and in management speak, there is a continued need to apply high quality focus to areas of development in order to avoid the premature sunsetting of the product

(I genuinely came across 'sunsetting' in a news story yesterday!! )

 

Funny, shouldn't it be the way around?

 

Some cars that were not in your examples: Brabham BT26 and Lotus 49C, which are low downforce, low weight, high power. And the Formula Vintage G1 cars. You should test them all, to see if they verify or falsify your hypothesis. The Lotus 49 for example feels completely different between AMS2, iRacing, and Assetto Corsa. On the other hand, the Brabham BT26 in AMS2 and the Brabham BT20 in rFactor2 (mod, not base content) feel more similar to each other than the Lotuses.

I think that the issue is not as simple as just being related to downforce, or that downforce magically solves the issue by masking bad handling characteristics. I think there are multiple factors at play that will take time to figure out and solve.

 

'Rates' is right for spring rates; 'steps' might be better for steps than 'units' but the help text covers it adequately.

 

There is open wheels in my list. But in general high downforce are well managed by the game. Your idea catched my attention also may be it's a general characteristic of AMS2 but may be the downforce is masking the issue with the cars that are driving well. May be the extra force is stabilizing the car and for those who only use mechanical grip the strange effect is more pronounced. About the "middle downforce" cars I've already compared Brabham BT26 and Lotus 49C with the other sim too and they was different but abnormally different, too slippery and bouncy. It was hard to make a correct lap in Monaco (may be i'm a bad driver) .If I remember this test was the one that made me stop playing AMS2 4 months ago ( happy to be back by the way). Unless we agree that all the other sim are bad and AMS2 is the only one that is doing things right with those BT26 and Lotus 49C, there may be a problem.

 

Counterexample: The FTrainer and FVee are almost universally loved, while the Group C reaction was mixed at best.

 

Some forum peeps 6 month ago:
"Reiza, those GT3 and other cars drive like crap and are all over the place. Do something!"

Some forum peeps 6 month later after Reiza applied the most comprehensive update:
"Reiza, those GT3 and other cars can't do donuts and don't spin tires. Do something!"

Go figure......

 

Exactly the cars are spot on, people are so quick to blame cars.

Aren't driving fast enough to push the cars beyond the limits.
Can't drive and blame the game, Gamermuscle and especially that numpty Ermon.
Keeps crashing the Ai and blames AMS2, brakes too late locks up and blames AMS2, takes all the downforce off to gain top speed and blames AMS2 for a twitchy rear-end .

The cars are spot on for me after the last update, yeah tweaking is always needed, but just drive the game.

Alot of the older Sims are set in the sweet spot to appeal to the masses, does that mean its real.

Not from my real life experience, AMS2 is the only sim where you actually have to drive the car underneath you.

 

I can finally drive the Porsche 911 Cup on the Nordschleife and it behaves like a Porsche 911 Cup

 

So why is ACC so different? I can slide almost anywhere and it's not that easy to play. I like AMS2 approach but it's way too easy. I know GT3 has high grip and aero but still in ACC it's very different.

 

If youre seriously suggesting you can redline the Mclaren GT3, dump the clutch (with TC off both in game settings and in car setup), and the only reaction is the car bogs down then crawls away, then I pity those who have invested in a million $ supercar

Its such an easy thing to make dismissive comparative statements others have made which do nothing in terms of contributing to the discussion.

The fact it is the only car, or one of a very few, that exhibit such behaviour should tell you something. Even in its class it stands out for having zero ability to spin up the tyres, or lock them under braking. This with TC/ABS off in all available menus. All other cars in the series behave as expected, except for this one.

And you suggest its the messenger not the message..

 

I agree this end to both your posts inc

Often the case

yes, most of the time its forward thats why ams2 begins to sparkle imo, esp 'most cars' to quote some others. with last update. Though some genuine Qs have been asked here and on beta.

Not a gt3 fan here thats for sure, recent test just reaffirmed , generally for me lifeless compare to other personal preference, but GT3 cars in same class with no actives should behave with less difference in terms of flooring throttle from standstill and on same corners, so some that have Q this may well have good reason.
as for the tube reviews, well nuff said they speak for themselves . inc look up their net worth, $10000 a week for 1. must not upset the income stream too much

 

Youve clearly not tried it with the Mclaren GT3.

ZERO wheelspin, redline, clutch dumped. TC ABS off in all available menus.

It cant be said any clearer than that.
But if you wish to shut down discussion and maintain the status quo, be my guest. People will simply go elsewhere.

 

So... can you spin the rear tires on the Mclaren and Porsche GT3 cars and make donuts with them? Because like other players I also can't, regardless of settings.

Does this mean that the real life videos of these cars doing donuts are wrong? And if the real cars do it but in the sim we can't should we dismiss those pointing this out as just talking crazy?

Like I said before, if there is something that feels wrong about the physics then there's no harm in bringing it up, specially with some video evidence about it. Ultimately we all want AMS2 to be the best sim possible and even Reiza says they're still learning how to apply their physics to the Madness engine.

Dismissing all complaints as if other players where ignorant and saying that AMS2 is perfect and other sims aren't isn't really doing anything usefull IMO.

 

In this video David Pittard (BMW M6 GT3 Walkenhorst) explains Grip and Friction in a race car:

In this video David Pittard explains tire physics on race tracks:

I would like to point out that Reiza has never claimed that the development of the car physics is finished. It actually is the opposite and is always pointed out by Renato, it is work in progress. Best example is to compare AMS2 from 1 year ago with AMS2 today. I can only see incredible progress over the last 12 month. Of course AMS2 (and GT3 cars) is not perfect but you certainly have to give credit where credit is due. AMS2 is developing in the right direction and that is all what counts.

 

A well, its starting again.., if its not impossible to drive is not real..

I think when its too difficult to drive is not real..
I have 30+ year of driving cars, and sometimes the effort to drive this cars is too much, in reality we not spinning like trottle at 60-70 khm..

Sometimes when you brake, you can keep the line

When you loose the rear you can do an action for recovery, if you brake or use the wheel the car respond.

Until 70-80 kmh you can drive a car, any, without have a F1 class licence, i assure you.

 

Of course they are not serious.
They simply like it because in this way they can be persuaded of being able to push on the limit without electronics a 400hp/ton race car IRL.

 

Why do we have to turn all discussions in this direction and argue like 10 year olds? No one is saying that...

Nice videos. At the 7.00 min mark David is talking about the car on the apex of a corner, and how, at that point, all grip is being used to turn the car as fast as it can and if you acelerate or decelerate any more you will loose traction. This doesn't happen at all with the Porsche GT3 (and maybe the Maclaren). No matter what I do with the acelerator on a corner (even a hairpin) on this car the car it will always grip more and more.

The Porche Cup and the M1 Pro Car used to behave like this too but I haven't tried them since the last update.

 

And while we are in the Youtube maschine, let's watch Niels Heusinkveld talking about aero balance in Sim racing:

 

like you offend someone when somone is not offending you?

The Realism is a pretty word for people driving in a thunderstorm with a million dollar car.