Automobilista 2 V1.3.5.1 Officially RELEASED - Now Updated to v1.3.5.2

I don't disagree with you as that info should come through the FFB better but on the flip side there is more to shakers then just gizmos.

When you add shakers to your rig or your setup how ever you can your rig becomes alive. It really starts to feel more like you're sitting in the car because everything under you is 'moving' in a way with what you see on the screen. This extra info just feeds your brain into feeling more connected to the car which at least for me helps it feel more like the car is an extension of me.

 

This. Bass shakers improved my driving more than any other gear I ever bought except maybe load cell pedals. Honestly I have never felt brake lock up through a wheels ffb in any sim I've ever played

 

I'm still on an old G27 over a decade on so I doubt my FFB experience can contribute much to this debate, that being said, I find AMS2 to be one of the most informative when it comes to brake lock on my wheel. I use the default FFB not the 'plus' version.

Can't say how much of that is sound, visuals or vibration but I certainly feel more confident on the brakes in AMS2 than any other game.

 

You make a very good point in regard to the audio feedback from the tires. As it is currently, it's a bit vague and does not convey tire noise nearly as effectively as in AMS1. It may be a matter of fleshing out the tire sounds further, as audio refinement often tends to lag behind in development. That could go some way to providing more consistent braking, as well as immersion.

 

But in reality do you feel lockups through the steering wheel? You are more likely to feel it through the seat of your pants as a corner locks up. Shakers do this very well without it being a gizmo.

 

Who cares. It's a video game. It should communicate information necessary for driving through haptic, visual and audio cues as best as it can. "Real steering rack forces -only FFB" is a stupid idea that has infested too many racing sims.

 

I agree very much. It is a good idea only for either purists or people with motion rigs IMO.

mclarenf1papa once gave me his settings for the SimuCube2 for his IER13 race car, how the wheel in the car feels in the real thing - it's just heavy and dull. You actually miss a lot of information you'd usually get from g-forces and chassis vibrations.

I personally switched from AMS2 default to Default+ for exaclty those reasons, more info about the road and what the car is doing, much more fun and much easier for somebody like me who relies too much on FFB anyways.

 

Yes you can feel locksups RL in the wheel, but that's not your main concern in that moment and you start to cadence brake in that moment anyway as a seasoned driver of a ABS less 80's car. The wheel feel is the same as understeer, it is simply loss of traction. The sound, smoke and smell are another issue, also the flat spot after braking (yes did happen on road tyres, particulary winter tyres). What your tyres do is not felt through "Seat of pants" in a real car, until the skidding starts. This will happen slow enough for you to realize you're going to crash into the car in front of you, or depart the road in the ongoing corner.

 

There's none of those things, really. In fact, the front-end loading of AMS2 in general is very weak compared to other sims like AC, AMS1 or rF2 (R3E is equally weak in this respect and doesn't even properly communicate lateral grip levels, unlike AMS2). Increasing FX just adds annoying road noise rattling (and little else), and increasing LFB makes the centre very tight on corner entry but does nothing to accentuate the front-end loading.

 

I don't know about other wheelbases. For my wheel the recipe to feel more the locking is to avoid overloading it with other effects. I fear a lot of people use a lot of LFB and damping because they are looking for a very stiff and smooth feeling but that will sacrifice the subtle information coming from contact patch and tire locking. Maybe some wheelbases are also naturally filtering more than others due to their performances, IDK.
In time I learned not to exaggerate with looking for a super stiff wheel and prioritize less "manly" but more informative inputs from FFB.
Anyway, in my experience the rumble is there and the loss of torque is also there, but users need to be a bit careful not to sink them with other effects.
In my personal life experience locking front wheels is more a feeling of the pedal and noise and a relatively feeble one on the wheel. Without the other hints just the feeling of the wheel wouldn't be enough for me to be sure locking is happening. But that is me.

 

There's something wrong with your FFB, then. Maybe it's the hardware difference, who knows. But I definitely feel these exact effects Crimson described with my wheel.

 

Front brake-lock is abundantly clear through the ffb when using the custom-ffb file with my wheel. The audio cues are not as obvious when using headphones (specific to tires) as the location seems quite vague. Even the front vs rear in audio, is a bit muddy.

In AMS1, the surround separation of each tire works much better with headphones and 5.1 mode enabled. That was a bit of a cheat in the audio settings but, effective.

In ffb, the tear & scrub effects can be misleading, as they can be applied to both the front & rear grip-loss. For that reason, I prefer to reduce the effects (or delay effect onset) of the rear tires in the custom-ffb file I use.

 

Yeah, I even get very good lock up feel through a lowly Thrustmaster TMX.
Actually AMS2 manages to convey everything the car is doing through the FFB in a way no other sim comes close.

It might be "unrealistic" for some to feel so much through the wheel, but it connects me to the car and I always know exactly how much control I have over what's going on.
Add VR and bass shakers and the experience is just amazing. In total control. If I **** up, I know it was my fault (unlike in ACC and its "true to life" FFB, where sometimes I'm left wondering why the hell I lost control of the car).

 

Wich sound-fx is for the lock up?

 

My point is shakers are no more a gizmo than ffb from the steering wheel is.

 

Just wondering. When threshold baking, how do you manage to bake your cakes at the limit? Sorry, but i had to Seriously, thank you for this explanation. I'm a newbie, and you just pointed out everything i'm doing wrong in a way that i can actually understand. If you don't mind...what's the main difference when braking in the f1 gen2 vs the 2022 stock car? How do you compare the approach? Do you trail brake with the f1 at all..? I obviously know it's two completely different classes, but i have no idea how to adjust. Fun fact: I was never into motorsport. I don't even drive a car. I tried AC, and then AMS2. Now i'm here, reading about threshold braking.. It's weird!

 

The F1 have a lot more downforce at high speeds, so the braking force can be super strong. But as the car slows down, so does the downforce gets weaker and weaker. It's similar with Stock Cars, but the downforce effect is marginal compared to F1, but the principle is the same - the faster the car goes, the less likely you can lock up the tires. So the drop of braking performance will be less visible in Stock Car than in F1.

Now, once the basics of braking in straight line are covered, when turning into the corner there's a shift of weight to the "outside" of the car. So when turning right, the left wheels are pressed harder and right wheel gets less grip. So the inside wheel is a lot easier to lock up, as the grip per tyre is uneven.

When turning there's also a limit of tyre capabilities - you can't brake and turn at full potential at the same time. The sharper the turn, the less braking grip is available. And vice versa - the more braking, the less is available for turning.

Combine the above together and you'll have basic tyre rules per corner. Trail braking is tricky, it's easy to overshoot the corners as it's difficult to judge correctly. Practice makes perfect.

You're definitely on the good tracks as you're hungry not just for laptimes, but the techniques and understanding of the physics.

 

I saw a new car / new cars have made their appearance in beta files.